Tier List: 5e Cantrips

0:20 Hey, it's Jason. So before we start the episode, let me just say I done goofed. Okay, I had this idea to do a cool episode like a bunch of my favorite YouTube channels, and let's do a tier list. So tear lists are where you pick a bunch of things within the topic and you rank them from D tier at the bottom and then increasing to C tier, B tier, A tier, and you you're really special stuff goes in S tier. And while I stand by the idea, the part that I goofed was the tearless topic. I chose cantrips and no one stopped me. And it wasn't until we wrapped up the recording session that lasted two whole hours that I even realized the severity to which i'd done goofed. So rather than scrap some great material, I'm going to present to you guys the highly edited, abridged version of this conversation. I'll chime in here and there with the things that you're missing, and I'm also going to remove the parts where we read what these cantrips do. So I suggest you have your favorite spellbook candy if you need it. So the important thing here is I learned my lesson and I'm very very sorry, but part of me is wondering would you like to hear the two hour version of an episode like this? It can make for a great bonus content when we open up the Patreon down the line let us know. As always, you can send us your feedback to Hello Adventurers podcast at gmail dot com. But enough explaining, enough table to my legs, enough eating crow. With that out of the way, let's get into our tier list, ranking every every cantrip in D and D fifth

1:52 edition. Hellllo Adventurers, Thanks for tuning into the podcast time. Jason Portiso, I'm Jomo Call and I'm Jim Crocker. Today we're going to start a series that I think it's going to be a lot of fun. We're on tearmaker dot com. We're gonna make it to your list and we'll start picking a couple of different topics and just see how we all feel about these things. So to kick this off today, we are going to be ranking every single available at the time of this recording, every available cantrip's as an easy the two cantrips. Everyone knows cantrips. I'm sure the beauty and how how heated of an opinion could you possibly have on a cantrip. We'll see you say that like you've never been on the internet. I can't wait to get into this. All right, there's a bunch to get through. Let let's let's jump into this and if you want to play along with us, but we're gonna have a link to the tiermaker site that we're doing this off of, so you can see how your list differs from ours. So, without further ado, let's jump in our first cantrip and I have to look up a lot of these. I know what most of these do, but maybe not like super granularly some of these. I don't think I've ever cast or had anybody cast on me. So the first cant trip that we're going to rank this is frostbite. So cantrip that grows full damage mit gets disadvantage.

3:16 Though, how do you feel about this? C class? Safer suck spells blow? I hate saber suck spells. Okay, I never take them if I can possibly avoid it. By savor suck, you mean all damage to damage? I mean I mean all or nothing. Yeah, Like, if your opponent makes a save, then nothing happens. Now if on a failed save, your opponents still took advantage without taking the damage. Then it would be like a B level spell, I would Yeah, it doesn't even get yeah no nothing trip though, so like are not supposed to like I think pretty much every can't trip suck, is it? No? No, no, I'm sure you'll prove me wrong. Yep, yeah, I'll go and see with you on this one. This is I don't think it's it's less damage than stuff like fireball. Fireball, it's less damage from firebolt and giving disadvantage is okay, but what if they don't take a weapon attack? So cool, So frostbite seatier. Hey, I'll just step in here real quick and bring you up to speed on a few things that we edited out.

4:25 I promise I won't do this too often, but this one came out really early in the episode. So while we recognize that spells like Frostbite aren't useless, they're not great. And there seems to be a few can trips that are really really similar, all doing different kind of damage and having a different secondary effect. So because they're so similar, they're all going to join Frostbite in the seatire. So this includes mind sliver, poison, spray, sword burst, infestation, sacred flame, sapping, sting, and word of Radiance. However, we did give special recognition to acid splash for its ability to destroy small items like ropes and its secondary ability to hit a second target at a distance if they're standing next to each other. So we moved assets Splash into beats here. Okay, let's get back in there. Minor illusion.

5:15 Minor illusion is awesome. Let me get the correct text on this. One illusion can trip one action of thirty foot range. You create a sound or an image of an object within range that lasts for the duration. The illusion also ends if you dismiss it as an action or cast a spell. Again, all that to say, you can make something look like it's there when it's not, or sound sounds like that. That's I mean, even better solding the solid s class as far as I think. So this is fantastic being able to fake someone else's voice from thirty feet away, and it's it's that so many narrative possibilities you can do, such interesting stories you can get creative with Yeah, players can get with it, which I like about it. I've seen people minor illusion entire new outfits on themselves crown's rings make them look rich. But that's the beauty of it is that it creates this like vast array of possibilities, but not game breaking possibility. So it's just it's just right in the sweet spot of what a really cool you know cantrip style spell should do. I Keep might only last a minute, so you are trying to use it to look like someone you're not. You only have that much time, and you can use it on other characters. That's the other thing that's great about it. It is not just you know, you can put an outfit on someone else, you can duplicate someone else's voice. It doesn't have to be just you know, an illusion on you. Yeah, so we're calling this class solid is the present. We're solid. Yeah, we're two spells in. We got already our first s class. Next we have message. This is one of those cantrips that we're going to give it

6:50 a rank because that's what we're here to do. Yes, but that is going to vary wildly depending on the kind of campaign you're in and how your DM likes to run stuff. Of course, if you're putting a lot of situations where it's important for you to communicate surreptitiously with other party members. You know, the value of this spell goes up if you're in a campaign where like it never even comes up, there's no reason for you to use it. So I think it's going to depend on you know, if you're doing your like we're doing a court intrigue espionage campaign like, then it's an s T your spell. If you're just kicking indoors in dungeons, eh, you know, much less useful. I think in a heist to be huge, the rogue is climbing up on the second floor to unlock something while you're doing something downstairs like that. That's when you're doing come in hand. You're dishonored campaign that you've always wanted to run. Yeah, I was going to say, even outside of stuff like that, even just keeping watch overnight, you con communicate with you other you see the bandits and you don't want them to hear you can the rest of it put your party. I think that's more common than just the hors where where it really really shines. And even something like an escort mission where you're like doing a steak out and no, you don't want to tip off that you know that the bad guys are watching you say, hey, I won't just be normal, goes straight ahead and if they do anything, barbaria in your first And it's also one of those things where like it's gonna go down as you go up and level, like for

8:22 first, second, third level characters, it's it's a great thing. But by the time you're getting your spell casters getting up around you know, fifth, sixth level, they've got regular spells that are so much more really for this kind of thing, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to put this in a Yeah, I'm down. I think that if it for very specific campaigns or situations, it could be s. But I think like it's a soliday. I think once we start seeing more s t here cantrips, I don't think this is ever st here. I don't see it. I don't see they. Yeah, yeah, when this is breaking a game, I agree with that. Yeah, okay, like Moner illusion is the is the precedent that we say, and I know I know which other ones are going to go on st here message is fantastic, happily a here though, next up is fire Bolt. It's right there with acid splash. I'm concerned.

9:18 Yeah that really, Yes, yeah, I think this is way better than us. Yeah, actually I probably agree. It's more damage, it's much better range. You're letting things on fire. So if you're trying to talk about getting rid of a rope or something, you know that if that's the splash got upgraded to a bee for you because of the Europe thing. Uh yeah, this is going to do that from twice the range, and we'll target the acid splashes those double more. There more damage on this I can see, So my my, I'm not going to give anything where it might not work for whatever reason better than it be. I think it might be the uh holding cantrips's too high a standard with that that's double the range.

10:03 Just asset splash as well, it's one hundred and twenty feet instead of the sixty feet. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I've ever put down a battle map where anybody's had to do something more than sixty feet. But but that there may be games where where that's a concern. But you know, I'm prepared to be outvoted. So I think Firebolt, at least for Wizards, might be the best damage tiling cantrip, but actually might artificer it is because it's a d ten. But whether that that difference makes it, you know, bumps of a whole tier is up to you. It does not for me. Like I said, I don't I like S and A as far as I'm concerned. Are cantrips that always work every time. And that's that's one of the one of the criteria that I have for that.

10:52 I'm thinking of this as your S and A is like either must haves or even like defing. We can have different criteria work because we're different people. Yeah, that's the beauty of this is just ranking. Yeah, yeah, I think Firebolt deserves be better than ass splash, But jo do you think? Yeah? My vote A on this one. There we go. I was ready to be off voted to. All right, next one, and this is going to test your Gaelic reading skills. This is Clayey or is my oldest son called delay drove me insane? Yeah, Sulie log needs a shamrock leaf of the cast. Don't you know that is a harmful stereotys. Actually that is Kenny. I did not pull that out of my ask.

11:37 That is Kennon, sir. Yeah, this is like Druid one oh one level one Druid stuff. It's the most damage you're going to be doing beyond the first couple levels of druid, though it really falls off quickly. This is not es tre from me. It's it's it's not bare clause right. Yeah, I would happily put this in A I can also see it in b OH. I like it as an A like. It fulfills that criteria. The it works for a full minute regardless of what you do. It kind of makes you into kind of a badass, like like you can at first second level your toe to toe with a fighter when you have this thing, this spell, and that's what it's for active. Yeah, I would definitely hat through this. And also the Druid that I played with last week, every time she cast this, she's saying the Tom Waits version of a Jersey Girl, I'm gonna cast our next cantrip is the friends cantrip does the there's a repercussion of its seeing this steep oh yeah, yea yeah, that makes it a DT as far as I'm concerned, I've I've never been in a game where someone's used this. Yeah, this is what this is what cantrip level Charm's bell gets you. It's terrible. Yeah, but except for one thing, which is that the material component is a bit of makeup that you have to put on your face. That's the one fun thing about it.

12:58 Components. Yeah, from a d m's perspective, it's great because this is one of those cantrips that whoever's casting it probably didn't read it all the way through. Yeah, yeah, cast f sure enough, Yes, yeah, yeah. I do like that. It is like the cantrip version of a charm spell, and it shows you how much charm needs to be valued by making this one kind of bad. So I would agree this is our first D tier uncastable. Yeah, yeah, trip. It's also where I would rank the show Friends. Hello Adventures podcast at gmail dot com. Sole shoe your favorite episode of Friends? This podcast brought to you by Friends.

13:43 For me, my favorite episode was the one after the finale when they weren't making them anymore shape Water what's kind of cool. This is something that Water Jenazi have iniche to them, which is which has been interesting for me when I played my Water Janazi Mounk. It's a D in that Dark Sun campaign I'm running. Unfortunately, at any points for us to be above D or even C I mean so again, it's one of those narrative things, right where if you've got a fun, clever player, every time you go into the pub, you can make ice for people's drinks if you've got this, you know. But it's like it's it's it's a b or C because it's so specific, and it's also just one of those some of these cantrips and just spells writ large that do a lot of stuff. You look at it and go, oh, what a coolest of stuff, and then you get in to play and it just kind of never comes up. You never use it that very much. Has this field to me where like you look at it and you go, oh, that would be cool in this specific situation.

14:46 And but then you know the DM to hand you the hall. Yeah you can freeze it, but yeah, and then there's arguments that can probably be made that it's not the same water every time. Yeah, I don't think it's completely useless. I don't want to d class it, but I think, yeah, it's here shapewater. Hey me again, I'm cutting around a few more. Don't worry, you didn't miss anything funny or super useful. There's a few cant trips that are identical to shapewater, except for their respective elements. They're all just about as good as the other, so they all ended up in sea tier. This includes mold, earth, control, flame, and gust or gust of wind, depending on which resource you're reading, although gust of wind is great if there's a draft. We actually had a lot to say about this one, So let's take a listen to that, all right. Next tip, you've got gust, So you need to be a wizard that can control the reality around you to shut a door, yeah, or give you like a like a Calvin Klein, Michael Jackson.

15:52 Yeah, Yeah, that's gonna aim ye. And then yeah, and then your clothes ripple. Yep. Is this better or worse than shape, water or molders it's the same. It's right right there in that. You know, if you want to do one of those things, you can, but why would you? Yeah? But also, isn't this just one aspect of theomturgy parts of it are right? Or a present entitation I think is one of those is one of those. Maybe both we're gonna, we're gonna they're coming up soon. Looking ahead, with a wave of your hand, you can send the you know, the mugs sliding down the bar so that somebody can catch it. That's you know. Yeah, A lot of this stuff is like bar trek stuff. Yeah, which I mean you can get creative with Listen. I can cast friends and have advantage to convince somebody to close the door for me. That's true. There you go, but then then you run and and they'll sit down and they'll be in rich. Wait a minute, I don't want to shut the door for that guy, and I'm gone. No one told me life was going to be this way. Uh, excellence. Next up, we've got spare of the dying can't trip that completely undoes death thieves. I think that's pretty fantastic. I think this is a must have. Yes, yeah, cleric an artificer that Paladin can't really can't do it. I guess Paladin would just lay on hands and standards bring him back up. But yeah, yeah, are are we steering this?

17:22 Where is his A? Is it good enough for s? I think it's I think it's A. I make I make this a Joe. I would lean towards A on this. Yeah, I'll go eh, because it's super useful but situationally super useful. And and again it's a thing that is a tier for three levels and then you have you know, you have enough spell slots that you can you're light on anybody any time, and you're limited to touch if you're far enough away. Yeah. Yeah, it's not going to help anybody, sure, so yeah, so great as a cantrip, but also in an arsenal of stuff like healing Word or mass secure wounds or mass healing Word at higher levels. Yeah, okay, I'll go with you, and pretty cool to put into a wand for someone else. Next, we've got blade ward. Sounds like a place where you go to get treated after you've been blades. In this case, it's he's in the blade ward.

18:23 Yeah, next to the burn ward exactly. Yeah, the very definition of a D level can trip. As far as that concerned, there's so many other better things you could be doing with you with an action. Yes, oh my god. Yeah, if this was a bonus action that wizards could do with we're doing a whole lot of bonus actions and be able to kind of, you know, not get their ass kicked for one round. Then maybe we got a shot. No, yeah, no, right, you'd have to use it every round. That does just doesn't to just take less damage as not even right, it's just resistance. Yeah, it just haves Yeah here, it's just even a discussion. Yeah, we're done. See later. Blade Ward mess Up is guidance definitely at low levels, and I think even at mid levels this is a must have. To the point where I see two problems with the spell, and not because it's not good enough.

19:19 I see two problems with the spell because it's too good. We fall into the problem of the claric player just saying just just you, guys, just just to a campaign for a second, just kind of like explore room. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna search for secret doors here. While he's doing that, Can I loot the bodies and do an investigation? Yeah, yeah it is it. Give me, give me you. It's just that's why I kind of laughed, like again, like there's there's a reason for that. You do have to maintain maintain concentrations ends well, okay, so you can't do it, well another concentration is up. But you're not using this during combat. You don't use when there was a pressing time against you.

20:00 So unless you're trying to keep up like a polymorph or something like that. This is just to it on everything to a point where some dms don't let you use it more than a couple of times per session. You're playing in very different games than I am. If you say it's not being used in combat, yeah, I think that. That's what I was going to say was I think that people tend to use it for mainly investigation and stuff and maybe perception. But like it, it can be used for so much more. Now you can't use it multiple times in combat, right because I'm gonna put you and say, hey, guidance the next role for the next minute, use right, So it would be great like right before combat you could use it and then after before the fighter kicks the door in, I cast guidance on him, right, yeah, exactly. So Yeah, and I think that not enough people use it for that in terms of what I've seen they do. It does like a boost on like wrapple checks and stuff.

21:02 But the other thing about this that determines what heear it's at is a question that I've seen asked on the DM Academy reddit, which is, are you the kind of game where you tell people what the result is and whether guidance might work or they say I make my skill you know they roll their skill check it's a seventeen and you know that it's a twenty two. But you just kind of sit back and cross your arms and say, I don't know, cask guidance and find out that makes it a different spell than if you say, you know, I roll a seventeen. Oh yeah, all you need is eighteen. You cast guidance, it'll it'll, it'll do it for you. Sure, you know whatever, like not cast it, but you burn your guidance that you've got in there. And so the kind of table that you run key and influence whether it's you know how great it is, but I think it's a fantastic level spell. There's a reason why the Druids are like guidance, gutdance guidance because it's it's a as a cantrip.

22:02 It's an amazing cantrip. Now we're going to rank this as it currently is and five E because this is getting reworked in one D and D and those books at the time of this recording have not been published. So last I saw, it can only be used once per ten minutes per You can't cast on the same person more than once and ten minutes. Yeah, that makes it a level instead of S level. Yeah, it's still very good. Yeah, but instead of being like completely like absolutely just like got, it's it's got. It's kind it's it's almost I don't think it's it's so powerful though, that it breaks anything, just just because you could still roll poorly. It's not giving you advantage. I think if it gave you advantage, it would be two. It would be overpower. The great thing about it, though, is that you get to decide whether to use it or not.

22:45 It's not on your next roll. Yeah, you're right, you get a D four it's in a minute. Yeah. Yeah, and and and that's why it only kind of only makes sense to use it if you're you know, if your table is cool about having open die rolls and knowing what your results are and stuff like that. Even even in the spell description I said you can know you can roll after it's almost more exciting. Like one of the most exciting roles in the game sometimes, especially if you're new and low level, is oh, if I roll a three or better, it'll hit you know, and then and so whatever my you know, I'll succeed in my my dexterity check to leap the chasm or whatever it is that you're doing. Yeah, I think this should be treated the same way as Bartican inspiration, to where you know what the result is before you choose to use it, but you don't know if it's successful or not. I agree completely.

23:30 I think that's the I think that's the most the most fair. Waight. So are we S classing? Oh yeah, up there with minor illusion. It's that good. And it's funny because when you said we're going to do a ranking on hand trips and I was like, a guidance is S class? That was like the first thing that popped into my mind. When we start elderslast yes, yeah, yeah, well elders Blast yes, as plus exactly a class above that. We have to create an S plus. It's a it's a elder blast is essentially a class speeture masquerading as a can't trip. Yeah, we'll get to that. Lay to that. Yeah, booming blade, Okay, boomer Yeah, this spells pretty actually straight straight.

24:14 It's better than yeah, yeah, I forgot about the extra damage part level five. I'm bringing the level one part. Yeah, it's it's strictly better than attacking. It's a it's basically a melee buff. It's like a free melee buff. It's pretty cool. It goes on Source War's warlots wizards and artificers that hit pretty bad. Now. I definitely used this on my Blade Singer, which is a wizard with awesome melee attacks, and this, this was a This was an auto include. Yeah, especially at fifth level, and indeed you know you're getting those extra damage died. Yeah. Yeah, strictly better than attacking excellent? Is it good enough for? How? How are we going? Hey? Yeah, I don't think it's quite. I don't think it's quite. Still, got to hit with that attack, right, Soliday Soliday, Yeah, no problem with that, And at low levels makes your dagger worth reckoning with. So yeah yeah. And even just like on a on an already damaged enemy that like then can't afford to move and it's forced to stay still, that could be kind of cool. All right, We've got press to digitation and in addition to being very hard to spell, it is a transmutation cantrip. So this is literally just wizard doing and wizard tricks. This is like more than any other cantrip. This is a cantrip that like, especially new players read and they want it to be an S level cantrip, But really it's like a B level cantrip if you really properly DM the way these things are supposed to work. They're very minor,

25:45 you know, fun little narrative that's the point. Yeah, but minor. And like people like, basically, can I use press the digitation to use this thing that I should be using minor illusion for? Or yes exactly because obviously I thought that you could do what you do and gus and the most useful thing I think this does it snoughs out of campfire if you're if the bandits find you, yes, while you're camping out. It is not useless. No, no, no, and and and it's one of those ones where if you have a clever player and you do a lot of narrative stuff, again, it's it's it's like a bar trick spell. Yeah, this is also this is the role player's dream spell. Yeah. Everything this spell does well is in narrative. Where are we placing this? I put it in B. I was going to say, I think it is a bee because narratively, what you can do with it, it can be a lot of fun. I think you can get really creative with it. Narratively, it is one hundred times better than gust and one thousand times worse than minor illution. I think we are right in there. Hello Adventurers, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy the show, the absolute best thing you can do to support us is to subscribe, so you'll be notified when new episodes are released. You can also leave us a review five stars.

27:03 Of course, that will help us get seen by more D and D players, and more than anything else, just tell your friends about us. If you like what we're doing here, then there's a good chance that your DM or your players will enjoy it too, And you don't need to loop gold to do any of that. We appreciate your listening. Now back to the show. Up next, we've got Thalmaturgy Palmaturgy Talmaturgy learn something new today. I've been saying it wrong this whole time to g it's a matter gy. Is this doing anything that minor illusion is not doing. It's opening and closing doors at range, So it's kind of like a minor telekinetic effect. If somebody else needs to get through a door and you can you can open it for them so that they can and blow through it. And it's only a cleric spell. We're a minor illusion one a cleric doesn't have access to it.

27:56 But okay, putting on clerics is huge, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah is anywhere near minor illusion. So as far as fun role playing, if you use that first effect, it means you get to yell for a full minute at the table, yell at everybody, which is super fun and everybody loves it. The rest of the table really really digs that. When you're you're you're hollering all of your dialogue. Yeah, now the other the booming voice, the changing eyes, the tremors, the flames flickering, I know you're it's bright. We're pressed to digitation is it's a lot of fun narrative stuff. Yeah, you can use it for you can use it in order to make a deception or intimidation check.

28:42 So and this is one where if anybody could take it, it's b But like clerics don't have a lot of access to this kind of rechick. That might be a level because for clerics it's not something they otherwise get a lot of access to doing this sort of stuff. I think it has the same level of usefulness as pressed digitation. Yeah, and I want to put it next to that. Yeah, that's kind of where not a hill I have any interest whatsoever and dying. I just can't put it next to firebolt and bar Thomaturgy beats here. So chill Touch is a necromancy cantrip. So the the biggest thing I have against the spell, as a lot of the people do it is neither chill nor touch. There's necrotic damage at one hundred and twenty feet. Aside from that, the damage is pretty much almost negligible for me. I have seen big beds get taken down by this just because they couldn't be healed. Stopping them from healing is insane. And it's got a couple of other It's one hundred and twenty feet, which is fantastic, excellent. And one of the other things that's really cool about this that a lot of the other cantrips don't do is it's necrotic damage. So if you hit undead, a lot of undead resist necrotic damage. But it has that additional effect that makes up for the fact that they might not take damage from it, which is really pretty cool and you know, is arguably maybe even better than the D eight, like giving it disadvantage to attack you. So

30:17 yeah, yeah, the damage to me is almost negligible. The fact that he even does damage is almost a bonus to me. Yeah, I want to a class this also just the description of it being like a ghostly spectral hand that grabs your opponent around the throat and clings to it, and that's just terrifying. That's that is a that is an a class spell description as far as I'm concerned. Now, if this spell was called necrotic range, then now that's est tire. But as chill touch Lion asked, chill touch name, I want to a class this grip, That's what it should be called. Anybody object to eighth here? I do not. No, Yeah, I think that's a soliday. Anybody want to argue for higher No? So either. No, it is the rare spell that does not always work that I can that I consider. I just don't think it's a must have.

31:03 Yeah, there's probably other cantrips like as a Warlock that definitely have access to. Yeah, primal savagery. This is one of the new ones from xanathar'sk Guide to Everything. So this to me has bits a booming blade in it. Sure where you're using your action to make an attack, and if this is better than your normal attack, then I think this is I must have. But again, because it's a druid thing, by level three you're going to be turning into you know, a bear or you know, eventually a tyrannosaur or something like that. So it's it's great for a couple of three levels. I don't think it's quite as good as booming Blade because booming blade has that secondary sure effect. Agree with that. I put it in.

31:48 The damage does scale, so once you hit a fifth level, it's it's two D ten on a melee attack, which is pretty good. Yeah, admittedly, Yeah, and a cantrip that's i'll e classic. I think that's yeah. I think it is. There you go, all right, Primal savagery heights here. Pretty cool. In Boston, this is called thorn Whip the Wicked. Yeah it is. It's a wicked cant trip the Wicked Thorn Wicked can't trip. It's transmutation one action range, thirty feet components D s M, the material component being the stem of a plant with thorns, so it gives you reason to carry a rose around with you, which is kind of cool. Your seat on mask ket exactly, Yeah, keep it tucked over your ear or something like that. Duration instantaneous, you create a long vine like whip covered in thorns that lashes out at your command toward a creature in range. Make a melee spell attack against the target. If the attack gets the creature takes a D six piercing damage, and if the creature is large or smaller, you pull the creature up to ten feet closer to you, which is awesome at higher levels, increased by D six when you reach fifth, eleventh, seventeenth level. But it's that ten foot pole that is oh yeah, yeah, that's that's the money shot on this spell.

33:06 For sure. It was just kind of weak, ye, especially compared to stuff like Primal Savagery and Booming Blade that we've seen so far. But that ten foot forced movement is this is the poison ivy. That's what I think of this as, Yeah, where do we want to rank this? This is a as far as I'm okay, yeah, yeah, just damage is fine, but I think if it was better if this was like a D ten eight, I think that would have been pushed it over there, which says to me, this is a well written, well balanced spell. Good for you guys, horn Whip A tier druid and artificers as well. But I see this on every druid, and and useful all the way up to high level because of that pull effect that it's gone on. It is at seventeenth level doing four D six as a level seventeen druid. No, I don't, I don't care before D six damage again, you can turn into you know whatever, like a tyrannosaur at that point or something. But yes, insane stuff. So like the damage is completely inconsequential. To me, this kind of reminds me of Chill Touch, which is also eight tier yea, where the damage is inconsequential and that secondary effect is just just beautiful.

34:20 Yeah, but what if you need But if what you need is to drag that demon into the portal so that it goes back to Hell, then you can do that with that grip. So now, because the damage is so low, you can hit allies with it. Oh my god, I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, your fighters, yeah, hit me whatever, take four, but it puts me next to the big bat. Yeah. Poke you for one D six fantast or something's collapsing. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of the utility aspect of it. This is fantastic. I love this. Next up is light and Evocation cantrip. It's the S S S that ever you're creating l It's yeah, it's it does exactly what it does. It does it well. I think every level wants this, and not only that you're casting it on an object.

35:08 You can cast it on a coin and throw the coin down the well to see what happens. You can, It's yeah, it's it's the quintessential utility spell for a reason. It was good enough for Gandolf, Yes enough for us. Yeah, this is just it's not so game it's not game breaking, but it is just perfect utility. It's game making. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's are you guys better than breaking? Yeah? Like s tire end of conversation. Our next spell is about that time that my broccoli caught fire. So Joe, if you please talk about produce flame a produce flame conjuration can't trip. That's the worst joke I can passive of the show and I'm leaving it in. I'm not at any fantastic good flame, please, Joe. Is this a light that you can attack with for a druid?

35:57 Yeah, yes, but it's a slightly shorter duration light that you can attack with. Ten minutes is a lot, though. Yeah, ten minutes is enough for any certainly you know encounter length thing you're going to do, and probably most bits of exploration. If you're dungeon crawling like you get, you get ten minutes out of it, it stops. You just turn the lights on again. It's a cantrip. Yeah, and if anything happens in the meantime, you can use it, just throw it ract And mainly druids don't have access to light, so this is the version of light they get if they want it. I put it up there with right now. I think I think this is a I think that belongs there. You get a you lose a little bit of brightness, but you get to attack with it.

36:43 Yeah, insane. Yeah, that's probably what pushes it over the edge because I've just a tier. But yeah, the fact that you can use it in more than one way. Yeah, and if you if you need it for longer, you're probably not in a If you're in a combat situation, ten minutes will get you there. If you're a non combat situation, and just turn it back on. Yeah, I gotta go produce lame s tier definitely belongs next to light Next up, we've got thunderclap. The thunderclap. It's just sword burst with sound. Also, my favorite part about the spell is that it teaches new players that there's a difference between thunder damage and lightning damage. They all things. The reason it exists, the all thing.

37:24 This is thorn. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, is this going next to It's going next to all of those C tiers. Yeah, like damage in the circle spells. Yeah, and it and it damages. It does damage to all creatures. Not yes, or just not just m It's sword burst with sound. Yeah yeah. Is there any time where I can think of where it would be bad? But is there any time where that sound being audible from one hundred feet away would be good? If you were in a situation I guess where you need the allies to know where you were? Yeah, and you cast cantrips fast enough for morse code, probably not. Yeah, I gotta go seats here then underclap seats here boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. It's an s o s oh no, yeah, I don't think that's okay, okay, all right, well there we go.

38:35 Might be in a little trouble. I'm not sure. N Yeah, that's fantastic. Next cantrip, I wonder what this one does. Spell I could have used in high school. You're creating a bonfire. Yeah, a flint and stone was not available. Yeah, we need to we need a tiar That is me. That's this is falls right into That's the As far as I'm concerned, he's pretty med Yep. It is bad enough to be friends in blade word. I don't think it actively does anything bad. I think it's just literally creates a bonfire with this something that you can mean, And it's kind of cool because you can, like the sixty feet means, you know, you can set something on the other side of that chasm on fire. You can you know, it's sort of a sort of a one square flamethrower kind of, so you know, like the bonfire will light up whatever's there, and if it's next to more flammable stuff, it can it can expand, and so that's kind of cool. But okay, so it's not garbage. It's not garbage. I don't think it's as good as press digitation or shocking grass. If you want to start a fire without blowing a higher level attack spell, it's pretty good, I mean. And also it's something again, it's one of those things druids have access to. Sure, this might be a you know, a better spell for a druid than for a wizard. Yeah. Cool, I will happily accept that. Create bon fire seats here right there, all right. Next, we've got lightning lurre

40:07 and this has a little bit of the thorn whip thing going on with it. Yeah, is this the Is this the wizard version of thorn Whip? It sort of is, because I think thorn whip's thirty feet right, and this is just fifteen feet right. The whole point of this is that you you hit something fifteen feet away and pull it so that it's within at least five b tu, and then it gets good by the way thing you're pulling it in next to you. Yeah, how do we think that affects it? I mean, I think it's it's still pretty good. And movement effects like that are pretty rare. Yeah, and and and I think that that puts it up to a level. Yeah. I think that's the only reason it stays in a level yes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, But that that ten foot slide is pretty or the ten foot pole rather is is pretty cool. Just it stinks that it's only fifteen feet. That's my only problem with it. I guess, yeah, maybe not as good as Thornwab, but available on classes that don't have access to thorn Whip, and it's still better than Shocking Grass basket Splash. I think it's oh yeah, yeah, sure it deserves eight year, so let me lord eight tier, all right. Next up is ray or Frost. This one is cool because I mentioned the the wild Cheap Chase in an earlier episode, and this is what the Wizard will. I treat it as a layer action just so he doesn't accidentally die, but he's supposed to be on his turn just to slow the players down while they're trying to chase him up the upstairs flowing the speed by ten feet significant? Does that put it anywhere near Firebolt? Not for me. I put it there right next to Shocking Grasp and Acid Splash.

41:38 As far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I don't know. I think desplay for me. I think it's an eight year so half the range, smaller, smaller hit die. Yeah yeah, but slowing down is good, doesn't make it a tier. Yeah. Yeah, I'll go be solid you though. Yeah. Plus if there was one m but there isn't, so b Ray Frost bes here next time as Told the Dead a necromancy cantrip if you another necrotic damage spell, just like chill Touch. How do you feel about Told the Dead be for a wizard, ay for a clerk is how I feel. Yeah, because like clerics don't have a lot of you know, a lot of this kind of laser stuff that that wizards have a ton of access to. That's how I feel about it. I don't know. I don't know how you split the difference on that. I think that makes it a BE I would say be just because of the nature of the the after rollism saving throw, so it's save or see if the D twelve is nice, if it were arranged attack, if it were arranged spell attack, I'd make it in a yeah. Yeah, I think I agree. I agree with that. I think that's what stopped at BNA pull the dead beat.

42:51 Here up next, You've got dancing lights. This is a spell. You read it and it sounds fun. No one ever takes it ever. Yeah, that's that's where I'm at this. This is a spell that you have that you have like enemy spellcasters used to get the attention of the players. No PC ever takes this settle. There was an actual play show I was listening to that was and they admitted from episode one that these are mostly new players. Yeah, and one player had it and this is my favorite instance of r tfs to read the freaking spell. Yeah, and they get into a fight with a wolf and the player goes, I'm gonna cast dancing lights. The DM goes, okay, yeah, what happens? He goes, well, I mean we used to spell out loud, So he goes, so, how much damage do I do? Yeah, you might get the Yeah, you might get the wolf's attention. Perhaps that's why I stopped listening to that show. Yeah, but yeah, it doesn't do a lot.

43:47 It does what it says. Yeah, it's like light in that regard. There might be there might be some narrative stuff that you can do with it, but it's Yeah, it's not super brack. Yeah, I mean you can drop light down well, put it on a coin, but dancing lights, I mean one hundred and twenty feet. It can definitely be helpful, especially as you just send something and you can see what's beneath you. You got to maintain concentration on it. You lights fire and forget you cast it and you don't have to worry about it. Yeah, what do you want to put this? Yeah? Is it that bad? Joe? Oh? Yeah, I mean I don't think it is, but it's no. I'm with Jim on this one. We're going yes. Sorry, d for dancing lights yep. Mage hand is a conjuration cantrip with the casting time of one action, the range of thirty feet verbal and somatic components, and a duration of one minute. A spectral floating hand appears at a point you choose within range. The hand lasts for the duration or until you dismiss it as an action. So while you were reading all that, I put in an s here. I love this belt. He's got one thousand and one uses.

45:00 I think every wizard has to have it, every artificer it has to have it twice the entire classes. What's the road class that is based on like making it better. Yeah, I think it's just thing. It's a staple, Yeah, because I think they can. You can pick locks with it or check for traps with it. I've seen it. I've seen it use that way. Yeah. The road version is is it visible? I want to put it out of s and into age, just out of spite, because it is. There is no other spell in the entire spell book that you're going to have to say no to a player more often than with this spell. Out of sheer annoyance. I would reduce the letter grade, but it is. It is other than that. It is yeah, absolutely excellent, quintessential awesome magic, more than thumaturgy. What's that more than thumbaturgy that players think is major illusions? Oh yeah, yeah for sure, for sure.

45:52 The big thing with made Hand is can I have it do this thing that sets off a chain reaction that does damage? But we're not going to call it an attack, right, that's the question you're constantly answering. You know, Well, if I have it, you know, pull this pebble out, which then causes the avalanche, just the avalanche that's doing the damage, right, not the pebble that it pulled out it like no, no, no, no no. If your use of main chance ends and someone taking damage, I say no, but you're going to have that conversation constantly. So Yeah. The common one is like can I take a ten pound brick and move it to thirty feet? That I can? And then and then let go of it. It's the brick doing the damage, and like Noah type of thing. Okay. I will keep it an st here with an asterisk saying that you have to have strong boundaries with your players and they have to fully understand what they have, yes, and what shenanigans you will and will not allow, I mean order allow then right, allow the shenanigans and have fun interesting as long as it's clear. Yeah, but I'm just saying as a d M I award for creativity. Yah, yeah, I'm protionnanigans in that what's the name of that place with all the ship on the walls? I guess right, we got a few left u Joji Priest also readers resistance. Yeah, it's an abjuration. Can trip you touch one willing creature once before the spell ends. The target can roll a D four and

47:23 add the number rolled one saving throw of its choice. I guess this is up there with guidance, right, Not quite, because guidance is like any stability check. Yeah, but this is a saving I feel like this is a instead of S. But it is pretty great because you can do that thing where before you go into the room with the pastor you can have somebody throw that on you and then you know that you have that that bonus. So yeah, it's it's instandibility checks. It's yeah. Yeah. So if it's against something like a powerful entity that you know you're going to be having to do a lot of saving throws, wisdom saving throws, then you can apply it to that. I think the use case and the ability to even use it now using it as an action means you have to anticipate that that's going to happen. If this was a reaction, then you can do it like like in response to something. Almost I we're almost put magic rules out of this one. Then we've got something really really big there. Also, I want to take points away just because it's really hard to search for, you know, artistic Google resistance five E. I get the spell. I would like to see to hear this if what what? Yeah, I think the use case is way, way, way narrower than guidance. No way.

48:42 Anytime you know you're going into a situation where you're going to need a save, all right, where would you put this? I'd put it in a yeah, yeah, I think it's in a like at worst to be definitely not a safe, definitely not a SA. Then I'm the one not seeing the possibility, maybe because I was like, this is what this is the kind of stuff clerics do, ye artificers certainly. Yeah. Yeah, it's also like the kind of analogy to you're kind of immunizing them against something that's going to happen at a later time. It's it's the next minute, it's it's it's that thing where it lasts for a minute, Yeah, which is more than enough time to kick a door down and get into a big fight. So yeah, I will be the one avoid at this time.

49:29 Also, just like how adorable the cute little miniature that really for me, it almost pushes it into an s here Tyler cloak, so cute. Next show you want to read us vicious mockery. Yes, vicious mockery is an enchantment can trip you unleash a string of insults, least with subtle enchantments at a creature you can see within range. If the target can hear you, though it need not understand you. It must succeed on a wisdom saving throw or take one D four psychic damage and have disadvantage on the next attack role it makes before the end of its turn. Absolutely solid a level part spell as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, and just because it's so much fun to role play. Oh my god. You know, anytime anybody casts that, I say, well, what do you say that? Yeah, exactly, And it's just it's it's fun for the whole table. Yeah, a D four is not a whole lot of damage, but the disadvantage is pretty yes, yes, but it is a saver or sucks spell. It is, It's true, but it's a wisdom save. Yeah, cool vicious mockery eight tier. Yeah. If this was a D six or got bit of D eight, this could be, yes, But a D four is just like not a lot and disadvantage is like cool but not great. Yeah.

50:46 I like this, But it's also one of those things where like the bard typically is hanging back and not in the middle of the fight, and so oftentimes that advantage is helping out your fighter or you know, whoever's on the front line getting swung at, So it's almost like a buff in some ways. Eldritch Blast needs no introduction as a casting time of one action range. If a true striker would give us a D minus tier, Eldrich Blast is giving us an S plus tier. It's a It's a first level spell masquerading as as a trip. This is like what we're and the fact that the beams increase right at certain levels, it's just increased damage to increased beams.

51:34 You can them and they each have their own attack roll. Yes, yeah, that's unbelievable spell this, this is the reason to take a world out. This entire bills based on breaking this in half, like caffeine lock and cocaine lock and those type of swre locked builds that are just built on just taking this this little eighty baity evocation cantrip and just snapping it over your knee, breaking the whole game in half, and now overload again. This. Yeah, this is what your character does now. It's here to have this entire packet here, and I want to see the I want to see the player's character sheet. That just says Eldrich blasts, yeah, in small print in crayon. It's insane. And then you have some Warlocks they are almost like, I guess I'll do an Eldritch blast again. Yeah, yeah, you're wasting spell slots otherwise something if you chose to play Warlock and you're like, I don't really want to just do the same thing over and over again, though, but I guess I'll just Eldric blast. Meanwhile, the barbarian next to you, right right, I guess I just swing my ax again.

52:36 You can have a one page Playboy just wizard to you, sir, Yeah, exactly. If you are bored by doing just the one good thing you have, then okay, the Warlocks maybe not for you, and neither is Barbarian, but yeah, it's it is just you want to see damage dealing cantrips. This is this is insane. It's so good. We got a few left. Next is mending its tiar is directly proportional to how many opportunities your DM places in front of you to use it. Yeah. I can see uses for it in a narrative way, but the gym's point, how often if you're in a nautical campaign and you can use it to repair sales, for example, Then then that makes it super cool if you are in a you know again, if you're doing a court intrigue thing and you know a rip in your dress would be catastrophic and you can kind of surposly magic it closed or something like that. Help helping the noble fix her dress would get your favorite exactly but slip ribber situation, the broken key situation, super narrative, what does exactly what it says? Yeah, I don't know if this is bad enough b C. No. I put it in b with like press to digitation and someone found some of those other ones that are very situation. If present digitation is be then that an interesting you know that a player that's interested in story can like. And that's a thing where if

54:07 you take it as a player, you tell the DM you took it. You're like, I took mending. I want some interesting opportunities to use it. I want that to be part of you. Whatever his background is a cobbler or something like that, you can Yeah, and I would say too that you have a cobbler in our campaign. Be creative, you have a cobby bending, We're gonna put on betier. Speaking of these kind of spells that you can cast and then they last until they go off when you want them to true strike. We've got one action concentration up to one round for the duration. You extend your hand and point a finger at a target and range. Your magic grants you have brief insight into the target's defenses. On your next turn, you gain advantage on your first attack role against the target, provided this spell hasn't ended. While you were reading that, I put that in D tier. Yeah, I don't think so. So it's it's a combo spell. As a magic player, I would I would think that you would have more appreciation for combos. What combo does a bar source for a warlock or a wizard have available to them for the spell? I mean only they themselves can get advantage on another attack. Yeah, but it's like if you're going to use a touch attack spell. The fact that this costs an action, it's that's an action that I could have just also attacked.

55:23 Oh you know what, it's only the durations. Only around round is concentration. Yeah right, another concentration for a minute or something like that. Then Yeah, so I guess I guess the round is the rounds over at the end of your next turn. Yeah, round, not turn right. So but but still it's I'm with you. I'm with you on that. I wasn't. I wasn't paying as much attention I should. It's worse than doing two attacks. Yeah, if it's the next thing that you're going to do, yes, yeah, you get the advantage and they both would have hit. That's yep. Now if this was bonus action and didn't have to just be yourself. Now now we've got a spell here, yeah, yeah, give the rogue of the advantage. You needs to sneak attack. Well, even if it was just a bonus action, you know, just for you, then you could get get it for like I said, yeah, that's spell attack. It's two different ends of two different ends of spectrum at that point. At worst, it is worse than attacking, and it is only available on classes that already had bad attacks. True strike D tier And if I could make an E tier and F tier I put it there. I believe, And this is this is this is not a hot take at all.

56:30 This is the worst. Can't trip Oh okay, I think we need to breathe after something like that. I'm going to skip over some of these last ones that weren't all that great and didn't really spark any interesting conversation. We were going at for two hours. At this point we were almost scraping the bottom of us being funny. Uh, Druid Kraft is basically present digitation for druids. So we threw that and beats here next to President education of course and magic stone, total garbage waste, a bonus act just to create a worse weapon than anything you'll already have, d tier. It's it's junk. Throw it away. And with that, there's only one left, and it's an interesting one. We've got one left show if you'll please read us in code thoughts, code thoughts. This is from the guild Master's Guide to Rabnika Cason. When are we seeing that it's exclusive to that book? Yes, yeah, I think so. I think there's it's there's got to be a magic card, fald in code thoughts, I must imagine. I don't think so, head, I don't know, but it sounds like a magic sounds like something like a blue magic card. Blue green would be the semic guilt. Yeah, okay, there we go. All right, You pull a memory and idea or a message from your mind and transform it into a tangible string of glowing energy called a thought strand, which persists for the duration or until you cast the spell again. The thought strand appears in an unoccupied space within five feet of you as a tiny, weightless, semi solid object that can be held and carried like a ribbon. Casting this spell while holding

58:02 a thought strand allows you to instantly receive whatever memory, idea, or message thoughts strand contains who that is by far the most high concept can't trip that we have discussed just for all of that text. Uh, this is a lot going on there. It's super cool. It's very cool. Yeah, this is this is a psychic, like a psychic exactly. That is totally what it is. Yeah. Oh, using the wand to pull a little thing out of his head. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen the spell used twice in that pod, once in each of the two campaigns that Emily Expert was dming. And she has a very cool way of just like using it as a tool within the storytelling so that you can have secrets get passed along from a character that is no longer in the scene.

58:49 Oh yeah, I mean it's a great way for the damn to convey information in that one way kind of thing. You just get that one image and then you know you've got to try and act on and figure out what it means and stuff like. So cool DM tool? Is this a cool player tool? I mean, there's a lot easier ways to communicate with people? Is this it is? It is a Wizards Steves can kind of yes, something like that. It's going to get used just as much. So let me let me this way. We have message in a tier it's yeah, but this has to be left like it's very different than it's very different the message is this B or as low as C I put it in it like B because it's interesting, but no higher than that because of kind of how fiddly it it is. Yeah, and that very high concept and that feels like the same reasoning that we have behind behind Thombaturgy and druid Craft and mending.

59:37 We put mending it. Yeah. I think that's the only reason belonged. This is one of the This is one of those ones where a player that thinks it's super cool is going to take it. You know, tell your d M you took this, so that they can give you the opportunity where it makes sense to use it. Yeah, I can, I can get behind and thought. So that is it for that. So it let's recap everything. So I've got In B tier we got friends, blade Ward, dancing Lights, true Strike, and magic stone. Just unusable garbage. D tier. This is kind of like just okay, reusable everything that does damage in a five foot radius around you see tier this is usable, but kind of madge. It's not that interesting. There's better stuff out there.

1:00:21 We got Frostbite, shapewater, mind sliver, mold Earth, poison spray, sword Burst, gust, infestation, control, flame, Thunderclap, Create, bonfire, sacred Flames, sapping, staining, and word ir radiance. B Tier, Now we got some spells going on. This is like where the game starts getting interesting. B Tier got shocking, Grasp, acid splash, press, the Digitation, Thomaturgy, ray or Frost told It Dead, druid craft, mending and encode thoughts. A tier is where we're starting with the really good stuff. This is the message Firebolt, the layly Spare, the Dying, Booming Blade, chill Touch, final Savagery, thorn Whip, lightning, Lore, Resistance and vicious mockery. And s tire. This is either game breaking or game making spells where we get minor illusion guidance, light produced flame, mage hand and Eldrich blast. Oh yeah, I stand by this whole list. M hm, that's pretty good. If you are screaming at your podcast player right now and thinking that we made some boneheit decision or we don't understand how a sleeve you can you can send us a strongly worded email to Hello Adventurers Podcast at gmail dot com. Or if you're smuggly nodding that we've done everything completely right, you can tell us that too. Yeah, if you don't want to scream at us, please don't scream at us that people don't send us you a finger wag through a through a voicemail flow adventurers podcast dot com slash voice leaves a voicemail and to tell us your thoughts on our tier list. The image of this is going to be available in the

1:01:51 show notes. You can kind of see where we ended up and the list to do the tear maker yourself. If you want to send us your version of it will also be in the show notes. This episode was a dreaming along, so I'm not gonna drag out the ending any longer than they already have. So I'm Jason Bortizo, I'm Joe McCall, I'm Jim Crocker, and this has been Low Adventurers. Your hosts Jason Bortizo, Joe McCall and Jim Crocker, Producer, editor, and mentioneer Jason Bortiso. Our music is by Nick Spurrier, artwork by Christen Broderick, and with nothing else to say, we'll just say By Adventures