Interview with DM Tony from DND404

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The Low Aid Adventurers, the podcast
for role players and game masters that help

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level up your game. I'm your
dungeon master, Jason Portiso, and today

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I am joined by none of my
co hosts. We are not recording it

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on a normal day and they've got
lies and stuff to do and I don't,

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so I was able to record without
them. So Joe, Jim,

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I'll see you guys on Wednesday when
we record again. But today I do

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have a special guest. I've mentioned
him on the show a couple of times

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before, not only as being another
podcast that we're friends with, but a

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show that I have guessed on a
few times. And just to prove that

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we actually are really truly friends,
I came up on the show. So

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from d M D four four I've
got d M Tony on the show.

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Tony, what's going on? Man? Hello? DM Tony. Got to

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give him the signature, GI him
the signature. How are you doing?

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Thanks for having me? You're coming
on my show? You were you were

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due? Is your return? Yeah? After having you? Wait, we

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got a couple of adventures with you. It's more crucial ones too that I

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can talk about now. Oh yes, I gotta see how the Aftermath turned

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out on that because I have not
made it that far because I am a

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bad fan. It's so good,
like hundreds of episodes. It's totally fun.

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It's a while, so quick background, so we'll talk about we'll talk

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about your show in a second.
But so I met Tony through one of

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the local Facebook groups. I was
looking for people to just come onto.

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We were doing Commercions and Dragons at
the time. I was looking for some

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guests to come on and tell us
their their horror stories. And He's like,

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nope, I'm coming on and telling
a wholesome story. And we were

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like, we didn't think people had
those anymore. We happily had him on

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the show. We had him record
in person with us over at our friendly

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local game store, and it's and
we've been DMan at the same store since

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then. It's a lot of fun. Since Amy sat me on, not

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only two guests play, but the
guest DM on the D and D four

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or four. So let's let's kind
of introduce people to what is What is

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D and D four or four?
Yes, DND four four is an actual

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play podcast that I do with three
of my other friends. We are I'm

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a long time player of D and
D. I've been playing since I was

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about thirteen, on and off throughout
college and high school, and they are

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all first time players, which is
something that we kind of like leaned into,

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especially during the beginning, and even
now it we're up to like episode

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one oh three by the time this
airs, we still explain uncommon rules and

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such so that everybody, whether they're
experienced or new, know what's going on.

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I think that's something that actual play
shows should do. If they're not

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already doing it, they really should
be reminding people, even if they even

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if their veteran players, just remind
them of we have this rule work.

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I look up you know, I
relook up spells. I've casted myself through

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my own monsters, and I forget
what things do all the time, and

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we're constantly fact you should. We
look up rules for mechanics that we use

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often. I had a whole character
built around like stretching the limits of grappling,

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and we still look up grapple checks
every time they come up. We

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just learned around episode ninety nine how
concentration really works. I don't know,

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and we have a warlock that uses
only concentration spells that we still learn the

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nuances of concentration. I gotta ask, what was the most recent thing you

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learned about concentration? Oh, if
you ready as spell, it's a concentration

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check and if you get knocked on
the head or take enough damage, you

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can lose that spell slot if you're
cast level that. We did an episode.

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I don't know the episode number off
top of my head, but we

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did an episode recently of rules that
get overlooked and this and the that's one

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of things we brought up. And
even Jim, who has been playing since

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day one for a blue Box early
edition like like first edition D and D,

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when I said that, he's like, wait what, so like it's

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this, this is this is not
like you should be looking at your rules

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and this is where it shows like
this, this is why like an actual

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place show like like yours and a
discussion show like mine, like like not

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only can we coexist, we should
be like we should be doing stuff like

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this more often. Yeah, I
listened to well yours like Corimudges and Dragons

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when you were doing that a lot, and when you started this show back

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up or instance, the camp trip
to your List episode that you did I

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have some words and comments, but
we won't get into that now. But

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I love that and I love the
app recommendations because those things, yeah,

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help players out im mensely. Yeah, I was and proud to put that

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episode out with. I'm not going
to shout out this other episode other show

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that I used to listen to,
but they used to use do deep dives

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on very specific topics. I'm like, oh, I'm running that monster in

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like a week or two. I
want to know everything about it. Cool,

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So we're gonna by doing more deep
dives now too. That is something

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that that actually Joe insisted on that
from before we started recording, even episode

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one. And you want to do
deep dives. Dives are great, and

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we kind of think more of them. You know. The the amount of

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time that we have allowed to ourselves
to do the research for all these episodes

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doesn't let us do as deep of
a dive as I think people want to

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deserve. It's just too much to
comment on. And yeah, and it's

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just like, you know, it's
just an amount of research that like,

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it's just it's just it's time.
We all got jobs, we all got

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stuff, you know, we have
families. It's it's it's hard, man.

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So what we end up doing I
kind of just kind of rebranded them

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a little bit when they're a little
less deep dives and a little more elementary

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school book reports. Now that's amazing, and I think and they're they're just

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a little a little more fun,
more knowledge for pea sized brain. You

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still you still learn a lot,
and if you want to continue learning,

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you can go down to your local
library. If you can make that a

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pop out book, maybe I will. It's so oh, that's a million

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dollar children's book. Idea. Friend, we just we just cut this out.

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We're gonna we're gonna talk about this, all right, So tell me

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about so that that's like the the
thirty thousand for a view of D and

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D four or four. So what
what do you want to tell us about?

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Like what's going on with the story
of the show, or or even

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just like what sets it apart from
from other from other actual plays? Give

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me, give me, give me
the pitch. I'm gonna give you that

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elevated pitch. I'm gonna try to
be as broad and specific as possible.

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One it's an epic style campaign with
a big, bad, evil guy that

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doesn't really show up until about in
the middle of the campaign. However,

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he affects things around him constantly,
and the further the adventures go, it's

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it's just like you gotta keep digging
dance. It's like always conspiracy and the

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the show is going on about over
one hundred episodes. I theorize that we're

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gonna be about one hundred and sixty
if we were to finish it. I

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am trying to. We are in
a late game of that and starting to

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lay in the plane. Yes,
so we're starting to wrap up some loops

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ends, We're trying to bring back
some of those characters that may have got

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lost in the ether. And the
biggest pull of our show, I think

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is that it's the highest quality that
we can possibly make it and we will

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not drop an episode unless it's perfect
to the best of our ability. So

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we do sound effects. We make
sure that it's not just like generic slashing

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or hacking. It's actual sound effects
that relay to what the characters are doing.

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And we have starting on episode thirteen, we had like generic scores.

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Dan has made all the scores.
Danis one of white players, has made

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all the scores for each episode,
and every episode is unique scoring to it.

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Quite a couple of revisits from crowd
favorites like downtime activities and such.

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But it's a huge epic campaign starting
in one city, going all the way

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over the ocean and then coming back
and these are really starting up. Yeah,

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I mean I got into the team, like I'm so very very early

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into it. But the everything from
the like I said there, the music,

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sound effects, the general editing,
and this is something that after we

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met, after you were on my
show, but we got into talking about

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podcast editing and I was trying to
skee if there was anything I can do

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to help you. Guys, this
is what I do for a living,

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and I listen to it, I'm
like, no, they got it.

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We want to hire editors to save
our own time because it does a lot

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of time. We lose sleep editing
this stuff and you you edit full time.

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And we had like had conversations with
you and we had broke the subject.

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Yeah, and just for a full
transparency, The reason why we decided

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to not go through not because we
want to not see you succeed, Jason.

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We love to have you on the
team. We had bad experiences with

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colleagues and friends that have tried to
help us, and it always ruins that

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friendship if it doesn't pan out.
And I did not want to put that

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between us, because I'd rather stay
friends with you, you know, like

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you have your own editing job and
like you edit your own show and other

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people shows, and then like what
happens if we like ours falls on the

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back burner, not just because life
happens. And then it's like, well,

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we prought ourselves on being consistent and
like, you know, that's why

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we don't work with like friends.
Yeah, totally fine, Starl. My

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rent is still getting paid. Man, you're you're good. I was great

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to hear what. I would have
been very happy to have my name on

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the on the roster, but but
I'm happy being a listener if that's all

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I ever got to do. Hello
Adventurers, just stepping in here to remind

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you guys that we're actively looking for
submissions for our Hello DMS episode that gets

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recorded every month. Send us your
burning D and D questions to Helloadventurers podcast

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at gmail dot com, or send
us a voicemail by visiting Hello Adventurers podcast

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dot com slash voice. Don't forget
to begin your message with Hello, DMS.

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You can't wait to get your questions
to talk about them on the show.

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Send us your questions today. That's
Hello Adventurers Podcast at gmail dot com,

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poorly the voice at Tolowadventurers podcast dot
com slash voice. Now let's get

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back to the show. So one
huge thing I want to get into today

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with like, So let's talk a
little bit first about your general dming style.

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And I mentioned that one of the
episodes and actually even just you know,

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five minutes ago. So you and
I are are pretty local to each

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other and we have the same friendly
local game stoes. I think it's about

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five minutes in your house, about
twenty from mine. So we both are

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on the roster of DMS to run
one shots there. Yes, and you've

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sat in on a couple of mine. I've sat in on a couple of

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yours when I get the time too. And every time I play in one

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of your games, I'm like,
I need to go home and study.

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I always feel like I'm phoning it
in every time that I play in one

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of your games. And that is
that, And I mean that entirely as

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a comment. It's I'll be I'll
be honest. Most of those Local Games

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is straight up play testing from and
I try to make it as fun as

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possible. But some of those encounters
I actually give to my players on a

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higher scale or to see if the
monster's just interesting to people. So it's

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like a you know, it benefits
me at the same time other than just

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getting a couple of bucks. But
yeah, and but when it comes down

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to DM style, I gotta really
give it to the players. So we

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got Dan, Jared and Alec and
it Dan plays a ranger, he's a

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mini tour minas Pela Walker. We
got Jared who plays almost Vannin who's like

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the angry rage warlock who just wants
revenge. And we have Alec who plays

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Drove the Ashbourne who has a crazy
story arc coming up no spoilers, however,

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he was one like I just want
to kill monsters because he's got to

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always get that one guy that doesn't
want to play the and he's like,

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I just want to be the cool
monster hunter. And I leaned into that

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as hard as possible. And that's
a totally fine play style. That's that's

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something we can talk about too,
and it's there. It's their quick quips

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and the way we're able to speak
to each other because in any friend group,

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like there's boundaries. We kind of
destroy each other's boundaries on a daily

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basis, with the exception of like
a few topics, because we're so close

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in that way that if I say
something not necessarily mean but like it's just

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he like, Dan can take that, do a yes end and calm and

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hit it right back on. You
can turn it on me very easily.

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And Dan's really good where if I'm
like stuck, I'm like, I don't

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know how to nudge you guys in
the right direction. The three of them

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will just start role playing themselves.
They kind of see me struggling a little

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bit and push the narrative forward,
whether it's the wrong or right choice,

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and they are fantastic I do.
It's really all about the synergy. And

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you got people who like have never
had anything played before. No, So

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Jared is huge on board games,
Okay. Alec is a really big fantasy

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nerd, which we didn't expect because
if you've met Alec for the first time,

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you think he's like, oh,
it's up, Brad, I play

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Gulf and drink beers and like to
hang out California, And he's like the

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smartest person I ever met? Would
you really talk to him? And Dan

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is kind of like me. We
have like the same interest that we all

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play games, and we did twitch
streams, so personality kind of rubs off

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there a little bit, and maybe
we have a little bit of easier time

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talking into a microphone from micro streaming. But because when I heard that these

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were like first time players, I
think, like in your first episode or

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so, I think you even made
a point to say that these are first

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time players. Yes, and then
they come out with like already knowing how

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to role play. So we did
a lot of dry runs. Okay,

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yeah, we did about four or
five dry runs I want to say four.

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One where it's like I gave them
characters they have they didn't know what

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they wanted to play at, gave
them eric a deep beyond characters. Yeah.

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The second time, I let them
make characters and now it was like

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a two part session. And then
I did a boss fight and I'm like,

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okay, so here's where you want
to like kind of talk to the

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monster. It's not really story changing, but like you can have fun with

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him on your turns. And I
really stress free actions because free actions is

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where you get through a lot of
the role play. I feel they don't

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really change the tide of anything.
M Yeah, it was just and even

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even that, just like a couple
of sessions under the bellt's like they really

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like dove fully into the role play
part of it. That stuff that I

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that I see a lot of players
who have been playing for years just like

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you know, it's it's it's a
it's a combination of you know that you

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need a certain type of player where
that is within their comfort zone. This

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is something we talked about on the
show before also with like levels of embodying

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the character and you know, and
they go you know, full in first

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person, throwing on the voice and
everything, where like, you know,

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players who are not being recorded for
the masses might not be comfortable with that

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even at their own table with their
own friends, and they'll they'll role play

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more than third person and and not
you know, just speak with their own

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voice and and that's and that's fine
too, but like, but for them

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to go from never playing to like
a couple of quick one shots and adore

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two shot a little bit of coaching
and then just like coming out like with

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a podcast level of role playing behind. I think it really surprised me the

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first time I heard when you were
claiming that these were first time players.

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I'm like, they they've done stuff
before. We so, like I said,

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if you're starting a podcast, and
I hope you do, like I

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don't want people to be discouraged to
not start one because one sounds great.

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Hours didn't start great when we first
started in our in our perspective, our

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first couple of sessions were five hours
long. For one episode, it's about

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an hour and a half because we
cut down the fluff. There's a lot

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of oh hey, like this is
how that spell works, and then a

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lot of it was theater of mind, which I learned that Jared isn't necessarily

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the best with the theater of the
mind. So that's where I started incorporating

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maps to hat to his style of
play. And we don't like some people

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might call it cheating or like fluffing
the episode. We everything's real reactions and

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it's completely open world only during like
specific boss fights. Do I a little

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railroad in air can make it more
interesting, but all the choices and outcomes

242
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are on them and we just remove
the fluff from the episode. If they're

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like if they're asking how eldritch blast
works and he ends up shooting his crossbow.

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We don't need any of that elast
dialogue. It's it doesn't lead anywhere,

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and anybody who's listening is going to
get bored, you feel, I

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remove that editing wise, I think
that should be expected and even appreciated to

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get the stuff that, you know, just kind of get to the game

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itself. And even like the really
high level actual play shows, I'm thinking

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that Pod Critical Role things like that, they cut all that stuff out too.

250
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Sure, Critical Role Critical started as
a live stream and they kind of

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keep true to that live in person
feel. But as they progressed as not

252
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only gamers and performers, but you
know that's the show progressive popularity, then

253
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they can kind of, you know, they naturally cut them. They don't

254
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need to do that anymore kind of
clos you know. But on that Podmurph,

255
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it's pretty open about like the stuff
that he cuts and doesn't cut,

256
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.840
and like he'll get rid of them
rolling dice just to get just to shave

257
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off a couple of seconds here and
there. Dan yells at me, but

258
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I do it all the time.
He just run, He just throws metal

259
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.279
Dice, I'm talking about you.
Then he throws Metal Dice on a microphone.

260
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It sounds clanky and horrible and ear
shattering. He's like, it feels

261
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good. I'm like, no,
no, Metal Dice. I don't know.

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But you know, Plastic Dice.
I I just love that loft,

263
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that clackety clack sound. And you're
gonna and you're gonna find a subsection of

264
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.599
listeners that will agree and some that
that love you. Soak it out.

265
00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:25.759
Those use Plastic Dice and other other
shows that I've listened to. There's another

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one that I listened to. It
was called Bombarded It is it is finished.

267
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Now you know that show. I've
seen it. I haven't listened to

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it. Actually, the the DM
from that show is the one who composed

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00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.000
the music for this podcast. Oh
that's all shot A big shot out to

270
00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:47.039
Nick s Burrier. Well the bigger
ones too, right I. One thing

271
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.960
with podcasting is like I don't get
to see anyone else's numbers. Yeah,

272
00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:53.319
you know, you can. You
can track your own numbers, but you

273
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.400
can't track someone else's numbers. So
like, as far as like you know,

274
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they didn't have much of like an
Instagram presence, but like not podcasts

275
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even bother with Instagram, so like
it's it's very hard to judge, you

276
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.640
know, were they one of the
bigger ones. But what I can say

277
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is I enjoyed it very much and
that means something to me. But I

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just go based off Spotify ratings.
I'm like, oh, let's see how

279
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they do. And sure, I
think Spotify ratings is huge, sure,

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or even like any any podcast platform. But I bring them up because they

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made a point, even in the
early episodes, to leave the dice rolling

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in and then also speak out loud
what their modifiers were, so players following

283
00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.839
along, especially new players following along, can see like it's like, okay,

284
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well they rolled a twenty side,
diye, how did they roll twenty

285
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.359
eight? So stuff like that.
We I was doing that at first,

286
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and I started getting rid of everything
because now everyone's like level fourteen about the

287
00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.000
h level fifteen. Now you're gonna
get to that end game where like everyone

288
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has seven attacks bonus actions and their
presence stops them from doing other things,

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and even at lower levels, like
in the games that I'm running at the

290
00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:00.359
Breweries now, one of my pre
generated characters is a is a fay uh

291
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:07.240
is it they touched one of the
of the ranger subclasses. Oh whatever it

292
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:11.200
is, but right, but they
add on like another D four on top

293
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of all their attacks. Plus they're
casting hunters mark. So like if I

294
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made them do that every time,
it's okay. Well to it's the D

295
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.880
eight for the bow, and then
the D four for the for the fay

296
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thing, and then the D six
for the for the tunters mark. It's

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00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:23.440
like, we don't, we don't
like got three hours in this game.

298
00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:30.359
But just like moving, they wanderer. They wanderer. That's that I that

299
00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.519
I didn't. I knew it,
knew it's something, but uh, they

300
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:40.880
wonder at low levels anyway. So
you mentioned, you know how much you're

301
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.000
cutting out of the show. Your
early episodes were five hours getting cut down

302
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.880
to one and a half. Let's
stop at the sheer daunting amount of work

303
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:55.559
that it takes to make a successful
actual play show. I feel like this

304
00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:00.880
is a huge misconception that a lot
of new players have, and I'm coming

305
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.160
at this from from two directions.
One, they feel like making the podcast

306
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.359
is easy, because it sounds like
it was easy if it was edited well.

307
00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.440
And and the you know, the
first thought is Okay, we're going

308
00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.359
to make our own live stream,
our own podcast. Then we're going to

309
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.359
make the millions of dollars like My
Critical Role does. And then they get

310
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:19.680
on Twitch and they see there's a
thousand other people doing it and out of

311
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.160
maybe three or four are watchable and
there's no offense to them. I'm I'm

312
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.799
glad they're playing games. I'm glad
they're having fun. But like the IF

313
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.000
I IF, I call it a
delusion that I feel like that's being too

314
00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:36.440
harsh, but the the the misconstrued
idea that it's easy, but also at

315
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:41.440
the same time feeling like the show
is not edited at all and that your

316
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.440
game is just naturally that good.
And this was actually called the Matt Mercer

317
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.599
effect for a while because he was
operating on such a high level that people

318
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:55.519
expected their game to be at that
level naturally. And then when they started

319
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:59.839
playing for the first time and their
game wasn't that good despite them not putting

320
00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.000
in their effort as the player,
they get turned off of the hobby.

321
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:08.720
So let let's talk real quick about
just tell me about the just the mountain

322
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:15.200
of work that goes from getting the
episode even before recording, then recording the

323
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:21.079
editing, then getting it out there, any people to understand how much you're

324
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:25.440
actually doing when we started this.
It's very important and this is the most

325
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.920
important thing I could tell you,
and I have nothing to do with d

326
00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:32.279
D. You need to find people
who want it as much as you,

327
00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:38.200
and you need to be consistent.
If you are not consistent, I don't

328
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:42.039
think it'll happen. And if that's
once a month, that's great, twice

329
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.519
a month, that's that's still great. It's just you need to be consistent

330
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:49.359
in your work, and the quality
of each episode needs to be consistent getting

331
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:56.640
gradually better. Sure, everything needs
to be the same level of quality overall.

332
00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.960
And so let's just start from the
bottom up. What we have weekly

333
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:03.960
meetings and at this point in a
game, we've been doing this for about

334
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.680
two and a half years. We
each have roles. Dan and I are

335
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:10.440
the editors. We edit videos when
we get a chance to do videos.

336
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:15.319
We edit the assembly cut, which
is what you actually hear when we play,

337
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.519
and then I do all the sound
effects and Dan does all the scoring,

338
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:22.079
and everything is from scratch. Jared
takes care of the finances and we

339
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.359
had to recently just do all our
tax stuff and the amount of work he

340
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.559
did on his end just to go
to the bank and talk to people astronomical.

341
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.400
But that's like if you're successful.
But these are things you need to

342
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.640
think about once you've got your start
getting ads on your show and a little

343
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.559
bit of money comes through. And
then Alex is on marketing Patreon as well

344
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.599
too, and like yes, with
without getting into given away the given way

345
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.319
too much, Like you've got a
good amount of actual let's just talk like

346
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.720
just followers on Patreon. Forget what
they're paying, but like you know,

347
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.599
it's I haven't looked at it,
and that is public information. But it's

348
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:57.039
like, you've got a good amount
of followers on patreons. So we have

349
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:03.359
about one hundred to over one hundred
patrons right now. Record it's a round

350
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:04.480
about one hundred lest that look,
yeah, some of those are free,

351
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:08.519
but majority of them do bad.
You that cash money, that greed and

352
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.480
you have to understand, like all
this money that we get, which is

353
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.519
not a substantial I realized how that
just sounded. It's not a lot,

354
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.519
but it all goes back into the
show. We want to make art,

355
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:22.680
if we want to make ds,
you have to advertise if you want people

356
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:27.640
to listen, and we tackle every
type of ED avenue we can take of,

357
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:33.599
like Spotify music, Podbean, ads, Instagram post, Facebook post,

358
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:36.599
reddit post boosting those and it doesn't
seem like it does a lot, but

359
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:40.839
it's just repetition. And so we
get together, go back to my main

360
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.279
point. We get together and we
decide what we're gonna play, and normally

361
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.880
we play once a week, which
is already a huge shut of the curve

362
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:53.960
for most DD groups podcast aside,
we play once a week and we record

363
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.400
for two hours. We keep track
and like, hey, we're getting towards

364
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:00.920
the end of the episode, I'm
gonna stop building things up, or if

365
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.599
I feel like nothing has really happened
or they haven't progressed, I'll start pushing

366
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:10.160
things along through my dming style.
And we stop recording around two hours,

367
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.319
and then we edit from the two
hours and we usually get about an hour

368
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:18.359
and a half episode out of that
because now we're fully in it. We're

369
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.200
also in all different time zones and
and I live on the East Coast,

370
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.880
Jared lives Central, and we'll work
I'm not gonna say his jobs, but

371
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:33.319
it's pretty important. Alec is in
Hawaii right now for the summer, and

372
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.920
that's six hours behind us, And
yesterday we did two recordings back to back

373
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.000
because he can't record as much because
of the work he's doing, so now

374
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.480
we're doubling up, and that's probably
why I don't feel the best. They

375
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.119
got like no sleep, there's no
there's no video. But I got a

376
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.000
little blanket on me, like abushka, and I'm trying to keep warm in

377
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:53.759
the summer. You get your head
right now. It is eighty something agrees

378
00:24:53.799 --> 00:25:00.119
up there right now. You gotta
a blanket. I'm so cold. That's

379
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.039
a fever. That's what that is. Probably from when we were doing when

380
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:04.640
this show was coming in the Dragons, we our co host Josie was in

381
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:10.279
England for school and that was five
hours ahead of us, So like us

382
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.920
recording at like noon, put her
on like five pm, and then being

383
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.279
with him being six hours earlier,
you gotta be recording in the middle of

384
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:22.160
the night pretty much. Although I
would always want to be the one that's

385
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.000
in the earlier time zone, not
the ones after, because that's dan Alec

386
00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.759
was playing in Hawaii. It's like
ten in them the morning for him.

387
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:33.119
We're done with two episodes. It's
like five o'clock and it's one am for

388
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.519
us. Yes, yeah, we
were. We were very fortunate that,

389
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.839
you know, Jim being retired,
myself working as a as a concert engineer

390
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:42.880
where I work nights, our afternoons
were wide open so we can catch Josy

391
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:47.039
after dinner. And it just kind
of worked out as often as we needed

392
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.519
it to until until it didn't.
And that's why this show is. That

393
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:55.440
was what it is now if everyone
has the understanding that this comes first within

394
00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:00.559
reason sure, and that's where the
consistency part I was talking about. People

395
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.240
miss episodes all the time. We
do it. We take holidays off on

396
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.839
purpose so we can catch up on
our backlog. We take the big eight

397
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.359
holidays and we take two weeks off
during Christmas time for Christmas and New Years,

398
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:17.319
and it's just so like we can
catch up and don't get editing fatigue.

399
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.400
One episode takes about eight to ten
hours to edit from start to finish.

400
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.960
That's two hours of recording here.
Yeah, and with the show,

401
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:29.720
with the with the amount of production
that goes into it, and you're adding

402
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:33.000
on a lot more, it's a
very different kind of edit then this show

403
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.119
takes and like you know, on
this on the surface level from the from

404
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:38.680
the We'll take the that was a
thirty thousand foot view, Let's take the

405
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:42.119
sixty thousand foot view for a second. From sixty thousand feet. You and

406
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.799
I are both D and D podcasters, And the video on the show with

407
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:52.160
his big finger quotes there and like
the Not only is the final result very

408
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:55.160
different, but the amount of work
that goes in it is very different too,

409
00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:56.440
which is one of the reasons why
I do a show like this one.

410
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.240
This fits in, this fits in
my lifestyle right now, and it's

411
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.000
a similar editing techniques as most of
my clients. And you know, and

412
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:07.279
if a show like yours came to
me right now and needed the type of

413
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:10.720
editing that you need, not not
that what not the part of it that

414
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:12.720
we were talking about me potentially doing
for you guys, but the whole thing.

415
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:15.480
I tell them. That's why we're
like, I think, if we

416
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.400
do get an editor in the future, we're just going to get an assembly

417
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:22.519
editor, and we're still going to
do the score on sound effects and probably

418
00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:25.559
chop it up even more. Just
a vocal of work is done with the

419
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:30.480
assembly cut. Yeah, and that's
that that's going to change from the show

420
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.680
to show what your particular workflow is. But I've seen I think we talked

421
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.200
about what you were what your general
workflow is, and I would agree with

422
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.920
most of it, but obviously it's
working on the show that the show sounds

423
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:48.319
great. Man. So one huge
thing I wanted to talk about with you

424
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:56.160
is your dming style. So I've
I've sat with you at at a public

425
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:59.359
game, I listened to your podcast
that we have not done a home game

426
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.000
together, which might be starting one
soon. If you want to come over,

427
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.880
don't you tease me? Pretty much? The second we're done with this

428
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:08.359
interview, I got people from work
coming over and we're going to start our

429
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.279
sessions. We're doing a session.
I'm going to take them through tales of

430
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:17.279
the Yawning Portal. I want to
play that. I want to Dad,

431
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:19.680
you don't live far by coming on
over. But so I want to hear

432
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:26.000
your your thoughts on how to change
up your DM style between doing a home

433
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:32.039
game versus a public game versus a
game that is meant to be listening to

434
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:37.240
from an outsider like a podcast.
Do not compare yourself to other people,

435
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.359
like especially the Big Three Matbers,
Brandley Mulligan and Murphy. All those people

436
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.400
do not try to copy them.
You can use them as inspiration, sure,

437
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.119
and I think early on I probably
use Randomlee Mulligan as inspiration, as

438
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:52.440
a lot of people do. And
the inspiration I took for him was mimicking

439
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:57.440
weapons sound effects like pushing swat,
and that helped my players really get into

440
00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:00.720
it, you know, trying to
paint the image as best as I can

441
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:08.079
in their head. Talk to your
players. That's it's it's astounding. Like

442
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:11.039
you just go on Reddit and you
can see like these horror like not horror

443
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.559
stories, but all these suggestion pages. How do I talk to my players

444
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.920
to do my players aren't doing a
B and C I set up plot hooks

445
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:21.319
to not fighting, then they don't
seem to have an interest in my big

446
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.559
talk to them, ask them what
they're into. They might give you big

447
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:29.240
dms to copy, but like ask
them if they're like more into role play,

448
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.200
do they want to do combat?
Maybe you got to shorten your combat

449
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.359
a lot, you know, take
off twenty help points for some of those

450
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:41.279
bigger monsters, keep the keep it
flowing. Nothing kills a session like combat.

451
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.759
And if you get feedback and your
players will give it to you keep

452
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:47.920
asking, they will give it to
you, and he might hurt your feelings

453
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:51.799
a little bit. May have had
that happen. But if I hurt your

454
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:56.759
feelings a little bit, You're hurt. There's right back next session. Can

455
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.839
neither confirm nor deny, Jason,
I accept. I accept your criticism and

456
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.319
that that magic armor just doesn't fit
you anymore. Man. You will put

457
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.400
on a few pounds in between sessions
there. But ye talk to you players

458
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:11.519
and see what they want. You
know, like we're a group of four

459
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.839
friends that we have great synergy.
We also have the perfect amount of people.

460
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.759
I think for an audio podcast,
I think maybe five people might be

461
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.359
pushing it. That's the most that
would go. And it just keeps.

462
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.920
Everyone's going to have a turn and
have a moment and I feel like they're

463
00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.519
being heard. And then your DM
style will just shine through it because you're

464
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.279
trying to make them have a type
of dmu are will really come out.

465
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.160
So that I I'm one hundred thousand
percent on board with all that. For

466
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.759
all three of those situations, do
you change up anything when the audience,

467
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:48.839
well, when you're trying to cater
to the players and in like a Homer

468
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:53.480
Store, game or something where you're
trying to cater to the audience. I've

469
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.599
never cater to change you at all. Never I sometimes we don't. We

470
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:03.799
don't get negative commentat We got one
comment on YouTube that just said gay whatever.

471
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.599
Sure it's probably whatever, but we
don't get negative comments. Welcome to

472
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.240
Yeah. Also it was like we
made it boys also everybody. I'll take

473
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:18.319
that as a compliment. But we
do not. And I say, because

474
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:23.359
I had people like personally private DM
me, I do not cater to people's

475
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:27.160
ideas or anything. We have Patreon
mbcs and we'll talk about that in a

476
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:32.119
second. But I do not cater
and I ignore them, not because I

477
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.559
think I'm better than him. I
want the story to come for me naturally,

478
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.480
and I know I have a good
sense of what my players like,

479
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.559
and if they're not receptive, then
the session goes stale, and then I

480
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.720
change it up. I change it
up specifically for them. They're having fun.

481
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.440
I'm having fun. If we're all
having fun, people listening are having

482
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:53.400
fun, that's not a shot at
audience at all. That's great, And

483
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.039
I think they're they're tuning in because
the story is good and because the players

484
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.640
are good. Because everything is everything
they're they're turning into a show, but

485
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:06.079
it's it's essentially it's a show.
You're they're they're tuning in because the show

486
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:08.759
is good, and like you know, you're if you're watching. I honestually,

487
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:12.039
it took me it forever and I
kind of forgot that existed for a

488
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.440
while, but I just went back
and finished Fox Makina and like, you

489
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:19.079
know, that is just as much
of a show as any of the actual

490
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.599
play shows are. Yeah, and
you know they're they're not catering to me

491
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:24.799
specifically, They're they're they're trying to
make a good show, make good story.

492
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:29.160
I definitely think Matt Mercer, not
that he has ghostwriters, I don't

493
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.960
want to say that, but when
you have that many people, you definitely

494
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:37.319
like I think people prefer a beholder
over some ghosts. You know. That's

495
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:43.079
when like I feel like maybe I
would be like eyebrow, eyebrow. Well

496
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:45.319
we have even said on this show
and then, and I think Jim was

497
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:49.680
the one who kind of put it
this way, where like Critical Role is

498
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.480
no longer an actual play show,
it is a it is a basically what

499
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:58.039
is essentially a television show, an
audio only television show built around a loose

500
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.200
D and D show, you think, so it's it. It is a

501
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:07.000
show first more than it is a
D and D campaign. Yeah, I

502
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.000
don't think they. I mean I
don't really watch them now. I don't

503
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:15.119
season three dollars people want a fan
of. But I think they still,

504
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:19.519
you know, do what they do. You know, I don't think he

505
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:22.799
coerces them to like, hey,
you should go down this specific alleyy,

506
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.839
And that's that's not that's not what
what we what we think is happening is

507
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:29.079
just like the the end result is
way more. It's way more based on

508
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.519
being a piece of entertainment, not
scha okay, based on being accurate,

509
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.160
you know, recording of a D
and D game. You know, I

510
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.119
could definitely see, like the guy
in the microphone, like we're losing viewers,

511
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:43.559
we're losing viewers, show something in
there and then he might just throw

512
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:45.119
something and I could see him doing
that. I don't talk about the the

513
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:50.480
the the the edited and recorded show
not as much. Lesseram where like you

514
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.359
know, if the if they've got
they are they are no longer just a

515
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:57.680
loose collection of eight or nine friends. They are now in an entire corporation.

516
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.599
They are, They're an unity,
They're they're literally any tam And company,

517
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.799
especially now they're putting out things like
Fox Machina. They're they're an entertainment

518
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:07.160
company. You always get the comment
like, oh, I wish I could

519
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:08.760
play at match table. I wish
I could play at Brandon's table. I

520
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:13.360
don't. I don't think I would
be a good player or DM. If

521
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:16.760
I was playing, It's like walking
out to an elevator full of girls.

522
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:21.480
I do not think it would go
over well at all. I'd be too

523
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.360
scared. Sure, but like it's
just like it just it just comes down

524
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.840
to synergy. And like if I
don't have synergy, maybe Brennan could probably

525
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:31.119
lean into the skid because he does
a lot of improv comedy. Sure,

526
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.679
Like if I played a critical role, I got my big chance, I

527
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.840
would take it because I'd be dumb. But I do not think I would.

528
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:42.599
Yeah, he played performed good at
all. And let's not forget their

529
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.239
critical role started because they already had
a home game. Yeah, and like

530
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:47.199
you know, they're all voice actors. How do you think they met each

531
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:51.679
other? You know, you know, Brennan, these were all people from

532
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:57.199
former college humor and current dropout in
that thought, that's his wife and like

533
00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:00.280
and Jake is technically his boss.
Like, oh, big man, it's

534
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:05.000
got a wife. What do you
think you better than us? Until next

535
00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:09.880
year? Yeah, I got a
fiance party half screw you. Sure I'll

536
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:15.599
take it. But like these people
who have a long standing rapport with each

537
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:16.719
other and they know exactly how to
get a good game out of each other.

538
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:22.320
So let's talk about it's not about
me for a while. I've been

539
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.880
I've been on your show a few
times now and it's a blast, and

540
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.519
I love every time you invite me. So we I put a link to

541
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.360
the episode that I played on which
I think I stretched into a two shot.

542
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:37.199
It was a it was the prequel
episode. Yes, yes, I

543
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:43.159
got cutting episode seventy five, seventy
six. If you go to a firm,

544
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.159
Yeah, so I have a little
collection like one of those like like

545
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:52.119
link tree type websites on a biolink
for all my dming stuff. And so

546
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.400
if you go to bio bio dot
link slash Jason, the DM games that

547
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:59.599
I'm games that I'm dming coming up
are on there. You can and register

548
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:01.519
for them there. Links to the
podcast stuff will be there and then I

549
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:05.519
have I have a link to that
episode on there as well. I'll put

550
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:07.320
them. I'll put in the show
notes here too, but yeah, tons

551
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.280
of fun. I feel like I
should have already known it was going to

552
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.440
be an evil campaign, but I
went, I went. I went pretty

553
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:16.400
evil on that. I think I
was like pretty upfront, like, hey,

554
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:21.119
you guys are gonna play bad guys. The aha moment for the four

555
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:28.199
Dan and Jared was that your your
squad captain was at o Ram, who

556
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:31.280
was a bad guy. They'd been
fighting for several episodes, so they wanted

557
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:34.800
to do like I think Jared text
me, he goes, I'm about to

558
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.280
do a paradox right now because it
takes place before, and I was like,

559
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:43.360
no, do don't care. I
think my thing was like because my

560
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:45.800
character was supposed to be like the
new recruit and didn't really know what was

561
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:46.719
going on, I didn't really know
what direction I was going to go in,

562
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:52.119
and I think I think it played
that pretty naturally. Your sessions are

563
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:58.079
a great point of schedule conflicts because
we didn't have an episode ready and Alec

564
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:00.400
could not record. It was actually
he was a part of the world that

565
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:04.639
didn't have Internet for about a solid
month, so we needed to come up

566
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:07.480
and play stuff. And I didn't
want to just do one shots. I

567
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:10.000
wanted to keep the movie, the
story moving, so like we brough,

568
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:15.079
you wanted to it as a prequel, and now there are callbacks to that

569
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:16.679
moment that you played it. That's
what I want to talk about, yes,

570
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:20.000
because I didn't get that far yet
and I needed to know what happened,

571
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:25.760
so we could do a couple of
spoilers. If the diehard listeners of

572
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:30.119
my show are listening to this now, they probably already know what happened.

573
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:36.559
So you were a late song wizard
and you had it familiar black dragon named

574
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.079
Timbat, and you were working with
eight Aram pseudo dragon, pseudo dragon right

575
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:45.559
and you the three of you were
sent to look out for a disturbance,

576
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:50.599
to stop a disturbance at one of
the farms in a farm stead's basements.

577
00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:52.880
It turns out to be this massive
blood shard, which won't go into it,

578
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:57.079
but it's a major plot hook for
the campaign. The blood sharts,

579
00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:59.679
even like are super early episodes,
like they come up yes, they come

580
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:05.679
up home immediately. The whole whole
campaign is this is the driven factor and

581
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:09.679
long story short, a giant monster, a giant demon is summoned from it

582
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:16.239
and essentially destroys the farmstead. But
you were also like robbing the house at

583
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:20.239
the same time, because they had
called all the dwarves had called for help.

584
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:22.280
They were the farmers were dwarves.
And then you guys just sort of

585
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:28.679
ransacking it because ad Orem gave you
the like the go ahead. And the

586
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.840
big moment at the end is that
you met a dwarf and child named Warwick,

587
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.920
and he had a hammer in a
bag that he was hiding a false

588
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:43.079
panel, and because you decided to
spare him, you had like this moment

589
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.079
of good. You decided to spare
him and you let him just hide under

590
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:51.360
the floorboard, and then you guys
blew up the house. The result of

591
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:54.480
that is that now he's been like
this tropical island and he's learning how to

592
00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:00.840
be a blacksmith from the god of
crafting himself. And that's like a whole

593
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.000
other big story hook that I'm not
going to get into. But he's learning

594
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:06.760
how to craft, and he has
his helmet on and he's a very specific

595
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.000
dwarved helmet on it, and he
can't hear he's deaf because when you guys

596
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.320
blew up the house hurt his ears. So I wanted to add like a

597
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:15.159
little like a pool, like,
how are they going to talk to a

598
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:22.119
dwarf deaf dwarf? I think is
fun role play. Yeah, it turns

599
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:27.039
out he's the key for a greater
story plot because you gave him that hammer.

600
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:31.679
Those are legendary crafting hammers that they
need to basically create weapons to attempt

601
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:37.039
to fight the big bad guy.
And he's learning from the god of crafting

602
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:42.000
to harness those hammers because they're very, really strong. And when they fought

603
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.679
ador Ram, Tim Bat had teamed
up with him and kind of kicked you

604
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.599
to the rocks because you saw that
you were being good and it wanted to

605
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:51.920
be with ator Ram, who was
like, no, I want to hell,

606
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:54.079
I want to steal, I want
to blow shit up. They kicked

607
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:59.039
you to the curb. Your character
hasn't made an appearance yet since that moment.

608
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:00.920
If I did, I think I
would just have you back. Yeah,

609
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:05.639
I would be like happily shoveled.
Happily. Yeah. I think the

610
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:08.760
character more of a true neutral direction. So I think if Tim Batt,

611
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:14.519
if Tim has that much of a
bastard then maybe yeah, oh he was

612
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:16.400
a baschtlory and that boss fight was
so much fun. That was great.

613
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:21.679
Oh man, this is uh where
we're kind of hitting the amount of time

614
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:24.320
that I wanted to I wanted to
wrap up, but we touched briefly on

615
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:27.880
this is one of the things I
wanted to get into when I asked you

616
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:30.960
about your dming style that boss fight. And again, if you haven't heard

617
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:36.239
the episode, go check out the
episode. The boss fight was just in

618
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.400
in these like layers and layers and
like, you know, we see you

619
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:43.519
see this in like j RPGs all
the time where the boss has different forms

620
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.920
and and and different different what's sort
of looking for fass, Yeah, theasis

621
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:50.760
is actually, well, the boss
has different phases, and like this is

622
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.719
something even at the game store games
that I played with you, this is

623
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:59.119
something you're you seem to be really
good at, and like, this is

624
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:01.800
something this is what I need to
like go study when we're done talking today,

625
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:07.880
because like it's such a it just
really changes the whole dynamic of the

626
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.400
battle, and that's something I need
to be bringing to my players. Can

627
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:15.320
you teach me very quickly how to
do this and let's let's give the listeners

628
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:19.760
some value. Today. There's quick
and dirty, which is the oh shit,

629
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.519
they're killing it too quick. I'm
gonna add a phase two. You

630
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:25.039
just add more health and he make
them look a little different, or have

631
00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:30.360
the phase be a part of the
story to tell a key moment through its

632
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:34.639
actions rather than you describing what it
does or just giving any asswer to a

633
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.079
player. Well, that specific boss
was based off a mosquito. He had

634
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:42.760
this tall, lanky demon. He
impaled a guy and drank his blood and

635
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:46.400
he like or he blowed it up
and he was like now twice as strong,

636
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:50.599
and it was showing. And what
that was shown was that, oh,

637
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:54.559
there are powerful monsters inside these stones
that can get stronger when they feast

638
00:41:54.639 --> 00:42:00.679
on people. And then when you
guys actually kill them floated, which was

639
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:01.880
pretty cool. Everyone took some damage, I think, so one of the

640
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:06.679
characters died, one of the players, I think Jared's character died. Who

641
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:08.320
lost the hand, which was no, he was he was me and he

642
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:14.719
lost an arm. Yeah, human
die, but like but losing the arm

643
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:17.920
and like and now not only was
the combat itself in multiple phases, but

644
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:22.840
then like you kind of ended it
on, like circling the camera to each

645
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:28.760
one of us and forcing us each
to make like a big decision. Yeah,

646
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:30.360
it was such a cool way to
end it, so like he had

647
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.639
to choose whether or not he like, no, it's like this, this

648
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.599
this curse is crawling up your arm. What do you tell everyone? They

649
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:42.159
just like take the arm, get
rid of that. I learned from paid

650
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.599
games where we run games at the
local shop, that people won't come back

651
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:50.880
if they don't feel heard or unique
in the story. You got one shot

652
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.119
to attended, You got one shot
to keep their interest, and you want

653
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:58.079
to make sure that everyone has that
defining hero moment, and if you don't

654
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.519
give it to them, that means
you don't like them. Really who I'm

655
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:06.519
talking about? Not to throw anyone
on the bus. I have a DM

656
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:08.159
there in a while because my schedule
has been so crazy. There's a few

657
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:14.119
players I can move it out despite
conversations happening. And that's just that's just

658
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.920
true for the general public, which
is who just who we are dming to.

659
00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:21.639
You know, it's just the general
public. About three quarters of them

660
00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:24.039
can just go away. I hate
to be mean, hate to hate to

661
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:29.320
throw that out there, but plus
you just got to be honest and you'll

662
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:30.599
have a better time. Yeah,
And then this and this goes into my

663
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:34.840
other question before, which is what
do you do when you're dming for the

664
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:37.639
public, and like it's it seems
that you're kind of like taking the same

665
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:42.400
general ideas of like making sure everyone
gets through spotlight moment, and it just

666
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.800
manifests in different ways where like on
the podcast, this this now becomes like

667
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.159
a story moment, or at least
like a soliloquy type of moment where that

668
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:52.840
point where that character gets to shine
as an actor, versus a home game

669
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:54.840
where it's just like no, where
we want to tell the best word we

670
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.159
possibly can. It's just for us
versus a public game. We want that

671
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.079
player to feel like, well,
they paid to play, they want to

672
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:06.199
make sure that they got their money's
worth, and you give them their spotlight

673
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.079
moment for that, which is easier
when you have three or four players signed

674
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:12.440
up and not eight like I get
most of the time. I had them

675
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:15.800
a game once with ten people.
It was super fun, but not everyone

676
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:20.440
got their moment. No, poople
that were a little abrasive definitely did not

677
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:22.639
get their moment unless they got eaten
by the dragon. That was the fun

678
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:25.760
one. I've got that, like
I get it with like like whole families

679
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:30.199
will come like three like three or
four time and and and the trick there,

680
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:32.719
give the kid the spotlight moment and
let the parents watch the kid shine.

681
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.360
And then that's that's two players you
don't have to worry about. I'm

682
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:43.119
super proud. I'm super brad.
But when they play like they they'll let

683
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.239
you know just by playing that they're
more into RP. They want to have

684
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:50.239
that cool, cool the ground moment
where they chop off something ahead of something.

685
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.480
It's pretty easy when you're just like
when I come in by the character,

686
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.039
like you get that one kid who's
like I just want to cause chaos

687
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:59.480
and steal everything. Okay, steal
stuff. It's gonna be cursed, but

688
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:01.599
steal stuf. Have that moment.
You know. My biggest thing is I

689
00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:07.639
have a a pawn shop. Magic
shop. That is half the items aren't

690
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:09.480
even magical. He just says they're
magical and just a fifty to fifty shot.

691
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:13.840
That is it anything? Or if
you did try to buy a bag

692
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:15.280
of holding, they got to roll
eighteen or higher. Otherwise it's a bag

693
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.800
of the val ring. Yep,
you know I think that that was my

694
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:20.639
that was one of the games I
played. I'm like, you know,

695
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:22.280
I'm just gonna do a detech magic. You're like, you're like everything's cursed,

696
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:28.199
Like it's so bad. All right, Tony, this this is this

697
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:30.239
is the time I had set aside
for us. Man, I want to

698
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:34.159
keep talking about this. I'll absolutely
have it back on it. Maybe I

699
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.239
want to bring you on just kind
of like introduce, you know, our

700
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.079
current listeners to who you are,
what you do, what your show is

701
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.639
about. And I definitely want to
get you back in and we'll go a

702
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.519
little bit more into some of the
things that make you a unique DM,

703
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:50.280
and we'll bring on other other dms
to maybe some other shows, maybe just

704
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.000
maybe just some locals that I think
are great. You would love Dan honestly,

705
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:58.760
or you talk to him and his
DM styles absolutely crazy, great voices

706
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:01.880
too, really big on voice acting
for him. Awesome. And but thank

707
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:05.199
you for having me on. It's
it's blessed. I would love to come

708
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:08.480
up here and just talk about topics
and please and and if you're coming here

709
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:14.280
to listen for me, for my
for my discord and stuff in my part

710
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.119
of Spotify. Here's another show you
can listen to when you're waiting for our

711
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:21.079
show. They come out what every
Monday and Friday or every Monday? Right

712
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:22.920
now we are we're just gonna do
every Monday for a while maybe and maybe

713
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:27.599
maybe in definitely what do you maybe
at least for now perfect We air on

714
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:30.599
Tuesday, So when you're getting ready
to tackle the shittiest day of the week,

715
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:34.039
now you got something to listen to. Whether I'm here or not,

716
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:36.960
These guys a shot. It's you're
gonna learn a lot. And for those

717
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.039
who ask for DM tips, that's
your man, that's this is this is

718
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:42.320
what we do on the show.
We want to make our tagline is we

719
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.360
want to make your game better and
everything from our experience, we want to

720
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:50.239
make sure that you are learning along
with us. And then Tony is a

721
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:52.679
is a great example of what do
you do when you already learned it and

722
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.880
now we got to implement it.
So I learned in voting school. Is

723
00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:00.639
we have a ton to learn from
you from on futup. So it's hopefully

724
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:02.920
we'll figure out times to bring it
back in because I definitely want to go

725
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.159
more into like we'll do a whole
episode on like how to build a monster

726
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:09.159
and phasis and that kind of thing. That's something I really want to learn

727
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:14.760
myself. So give us a give
us a plug for em D four four

728
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:19.199
and they'll they'll they'll take this out. Check out D and D four four.

729
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:22.719
We're available on all podcasts and platforms. You can also go to D

730
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.679
and D four four dot com,
dn D four for dot c A D

731
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.360
four four pod dot com. We
are cleaning all the websites. As a

732
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:35.000
matter of fact, we've been so
aggressive on having different websites that did you

733
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:37.079
know that A D and D four
four is a military licensing Canada and we're

734
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:42.000
more searchable than a military licensing Canada. That's right. That's how good the

735
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.639
adventures. If you want to have
your stomach filled of butterflies, go on

736
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:47.800
an epic adventure and D D four
four is a show for you, and

737
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:52.079
you can learn from Jason for the
stuff we don't cover. Awesome, man,

738
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:55.519
Tony, thank you seriously much for
coming on. I love having me

739
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:59.360
on the show. We'll do it
again, man, absolutely, goodbye everybody,

740
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:00.599
Goodbye Adventures.