Mailbag IV

WEBVTT

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Podcast The Vocals and Game Masters,
No Level Upper Game. It's Weird Master's

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Tasso. I'm Joe McCall and Jim
Crocker. So today I was hoping we

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can dig into the mail bag a
little bit. And I know we put

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it out there for a bunch of
episodes and we keep like asking you guys

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to send the stuff, and we
are we are fresh out mail bags empty.

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Boys. We did it. I
answered every question that that that that's

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out there. Trying to wrap the
show up. No, we're gonna go.

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We're gonna go fine, we're looking
on the hinde. We're gonna go

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looking for trouble. We're gonna go
find find people who need advice and then

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for some truously assumed shove it down
their throat they wanted or not presumptuously assume

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that we are the right ones to
answer it. Probably aren't, but we're

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gonna pretend. Hey, fake it
till you make it. I'm gonna have

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a good time doing it. So
I went over to rate it's our slash

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DM Academy. This is something we
used to do on Commug and Dragons and

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sorted by hop posts for the month
and found a couple of things that I

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thought were interesting. So we're gonna
pretend but they're asking us. These are

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always my favorite episodes to listen to
when I was not on the treasure because

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I'm excited. These are cool to
make too, especially at the times when

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and while Joycey was creating these episodes
too. There's a lot of times towards

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the end where she couldn't make it
as she got busy and busy with her

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school. But but these these are
cool for like, she has her own

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school now, that's awesome. Yeah, And me as a as a very

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new DM at the time, this
was this was cool for me to learn

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a lot. So let's let's let's
learn today, boys. So first one

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I pulled up here is from user
and touch Starsky them isn't there somewhere?

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Post is titled so my players killed
the BBEG in their first time meeting,

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And I'm sure this is something that
happens more often than most DAMS would like

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to admit. Oh, I got
lots of opinions about this way. So

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what was supposed to happen was they
find in torturing an important NPC for information

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he says some ominous stuff to them
and teleports away, except one of the

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players has something that grants them invisibility. They got to jump on them.

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I swear I rolled three two's and
never rolled higher than a six. And

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now he's dead. Clearly I didn't
make him strong enough. I had his

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dying breath say something ominous about powers
at work beyond their comprehension. But like

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he was supposed to be those powers. So do you have any advice on

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making things work after this blunder on
my part? You do say the for

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worst worth Is says in five E
it's a different gaming system, but I

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don't think that matters to this.
He was a Lich, he is a

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Lich, and so now he just
how many so many d ten days he'll

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get to show back up next to
those flags constitution because you didn't find his

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his little soul box that you know
that is real stuff is in. So

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let's let's let's go about this.
Let's go about this two ways, like

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how how do we fix this particular
situation and how do we prevent it?

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So to fix this one, I
actually agree with the top comment here,

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So rather than telling you this with
my opinion, I'm going to read theirs

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user of Philsov says, turns out
he was just a lieutenant for the real

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big bad yeah who who is both
more evil and hotter thirst year yes yeah,

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introduced to him, introduced their silhouette
mixt session. Praise the party for

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completing this chapter or arc. Yeah
you don't, you like, like this

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can be the thing. The thing
that can be tough to keep in mind

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is that the players only know and
not even and even if the players know,

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that's fine. Even if the players
know that this is what happened and

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that you you know, you kind
of messed it up and they killed this

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guy early, you just as far
as the characters are concerned. You know,

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the characters don't know that this is
the ultimate bad guy, and you

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know, and like even like life
doesn't work that way anyway. You know,

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there's whole organizations and you know,
people have like you say, lieutenants

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and bosses and you know, the
cousins that want to get revenge and all

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that stuff. So there's no I
mean, this is this is just a

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speed bump, or it ought to
just be a speed bump after you get

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over your initial Oh nope, nope, that was what I had in mind.

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Now even you know, both the
characters and the players themselves could be

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could be led to think that this
was the bad guy the whole time.

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Yep, and like having bigger things
at work was just never something that was

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like meant for them to know yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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I was just going to say the
other thing you could do, I

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don't know. Spoiler alert by the
way, for the new Zack Snyder Star

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Wars that's on Netflix. I forget
what it's called. It's it's the it's

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Star Wars by but but Zack Snyder
doing it. The Moon or something like

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that is Rebel Moon. Moon is
the first one, and then the second

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one just came out, so something
can happened. They kill somebody in the

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first one, they are revived in
the second one. You could just do

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you revive players all the time.
Yeah, they're unless like the party took

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the body with them and burned it
and then took that ash and like like

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separate. You know, there's all
different ways that you could just have this

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person be revived. Yeah, you
can have a whole a whole series of

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episodes where they're trying to prevent the
body from being resurrected by the bigger bad

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or the clerics of the Big Bad
and then when that inevitably goes south,

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then yeah, I mean, no
where that can happen off off screen or

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right you find that you hear rumblings
of well, his followers are still now

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they're collecting this rare flower that you
can only find on the on the mountain

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in the north and what is that
about? And do some research on that?

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And yeah, there's there's a lot
of different ways you can go.

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And the Dean was smart enough to
leave a little trail saying that there was

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an ominous thing about powers that work
beyond your comprehension, and he was supposed

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to be those powers. No,
he doesn't. Right now, he doesn't

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have to be. He did his
part by by getting the last of the

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information from the APC torture. There's
ways, there's ways out of this and

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and I mean, and there is
the question of like just you don't even

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necessarily need to like do anything other
than Okay, the boss is dead.

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What would the organization do? Right? What what does his you know,

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how does his second in command,
who maybe didn't like the fact that he

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was so obsessed with these player characters, you know, you know what what

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are they going to do now that
they are in charge, Like you know,

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I mean I kind of joked about
the cousin that wants revenge. But

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somewhere somebody is going to be ticked
off the these guys you know, killed

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him before his plans could come to
fruition. So you know, like it's

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you just pause for a moment.
Say, you know, if if there's

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an army and their general gets killed, like the army doesn't just go oh

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man, that sucks. Okay,
I guess we gotta, you know,

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throw on the towel if anything,
If anything, organizations like Scientology became even

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more powerful after their leader died.
Sure, you know, so like how

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do you how would you even prevent
this? If this is something you wanted

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to prevent. Let's say, let's
say that Big Bad really you really want

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him to continue to be the Big
Bad and you don't want to go to

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second command. Man, I think
so there's a couple of things. The

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first one is you don't have the
players. You don't introduce him in a

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way that compels the players to action, right by having them show up in

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the middle of him torturing somebody they
like, you can't there's no way that

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they're not going to jump in and
throw themselves right at him. You can

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do that but have it, or
you could do that and just have it

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so they can't get to him in
time. You know. I almost think

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of like a window right between them, like yeah, or like a wall

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of fire, Joe. Yeah,
I mean, that's a use that.

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There are other things you could use
too, Yeah, I mean. And

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and honestly, one of the things
that I have done and that it's okay

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to do is to metagame in that
good way that we've talked about metagaming,

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Yeah, where you just say the
scene like exactly, you have that encounter

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and you say, this is going
to be a conversation between you and the

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bad guy, and I'm telling you
right now, you can't fight him.

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This is not a fight. You
can't kill him, but he's not going

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to mess you up. This is
just like a scene in the movie where

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you see each other for the first
time, and maybe you can ask some

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questions and we're going to role play
this a little bit, but at the

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end of it, he's going to
be gone, and you can totally like

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set the stakes for that before you
sit down and do the scene. Not

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everything like you don't always have to
say, you know, if someone says

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I tack and you know, you
can say, that's not what we're doing

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right now. And yeah, I
mean we can complain about agency and you

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know. But but you get to
you know, like every now and then

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you get to have a scene that's
yours, as long as you're not messing

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with anybody mechanically yourself. So I
just for me, right, I only

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roll the two and a three fudge
the roles, like if you see it's

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going badly one, your players don't
necessarily know what you roll two is.

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They don't know how much HP this
this person has, right, this entity

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has, So how do you know
just because it drains HP? There's so

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many different ways I can think of, you know, probably just off the

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top of my head. It's a
similar crum you've got. You've got the

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ring that's to teleport you away when
you get down below fifty percent hit points

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or something like that. And then
and not only that, then you have

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created a puzzle of sorts that they
got to solved the next time they go

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up against him, if they want
to actually take him down. Yeah,

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as long as you play fair with
it, as long as whatever it is

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that you do to get him out
of that, you're consistent, like the

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next time they run into him if
they have figured out a way around that,

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and ideally you should be ready for
the actual flight at that point.

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And part of the challenge is how
do we you know, how do we

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keep him from getting away so then
we can really beat him down. Yeah,

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And so I'll be honest, something
like this happened in in my game

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and I had I designed this this
NPC NBC Who's arrival of one of the

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players, And I was like,
this guy's super powerful. There's there's no

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way. They killed him in one
round within three shots. And I was

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like, holy crap. Which was
the Knick's rival? Oh yeah, yeah,

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so you killed him, but he
was on a horse, he had

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a companion. Yeah, and so
he started a retreat and you were still

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like firing things out. He killed
him, and I was always slumps over.

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I thought, I don't think you
died. Oh yeah, but who

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but whoops? But I left that
open okay too, Like I didn't say

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he died. But that's my whole
point is like, one, it could

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be the design of your maybe your
bb EG is not so the or B,

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especially especially for new dms who are
designing this for the first time and

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who get into their head that idea
of that BBG, which I don't I

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don't like that at all, But
that's a whole separate It's a whole podcast

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about having a having a good campaign
that has no BBG stank anywhere near it.

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Like the way action economy works,
especially in five E, people underestimate

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how fast someone can go down.
You've got five player characters all using their

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actions, concentrating on that one guy. I think that's why I like legendary

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step one action, legendary resistance and
stuff, So it is so important for

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reasons. But give him a retinue
of guards. Never have the player go

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up and you know, like like
like if your intent is not to have

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them smoke him, don't have them
meet him alone. Ever. Yeah,

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yeah, I definitely not a full
health Yes, with other spell slots for

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a couple of hour barrows, the
first mistakes were made. Yes, try

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to prevent it if you can,
and if you can't, just kind of

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roll with it. Re comment ways, we gave you a bunch of different

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ideas, and Joe learned a valuable
lesson as well, I really did.

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I learned it oil don't don't give
me tavelins, and there's and there's even

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nothing wrong, and this can kind
of be cool with you know, you

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like your eyes go wide, you
lean back, you go holy ship,

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you guys, you smoked the villain
that I thought was going to be the

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campaign villain. WHOA, that's amazing. I got to figure out what to

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do next. And they all look
at each other and go, holy shit,

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we're badass. Oh yeah, that's
awesome. That's definitely that's the rule

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of cool right there. Exactly next
week with a new big bat who's bigger,

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batter and obviously hotter. Yes,
exactly. The you have to like,

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you know, I'm a big bad
You can take that moment to help

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them feel cool for having done that
unexpected thing. That's a good take.

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Hello Adventurers, just stepping in here
to remind you guys that we're actively looking

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for submissions for our Hello DMS episode
that gets recorded every month. Send us

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your burning D and D questions the
Helloadventurers podcast at gmail dot com, or

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00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:54.120
send us a voicemail by visiting Hello
Adventurers podcast dot com slash voice. Don't

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00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:58.399
forget to begin your message with Hello, DMS. You can't wait to get

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00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.519
your questions to talk about them on
the show. Send us your questions today.

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That's Helloadventurers Podcast at gmail dot com, poor the voice at helloadventurers podcast

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dot com slash voice. Now let's
get back to the show, all right.

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Next one, I've got here,
but this is from user unethical cash

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Street. It's from a Reddit user
with a very reddity name. So I'm

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gonna read the title. I'm gonna
let you guys react, and then I'm

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gonna read the story. All right. The title is I'm going to use

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loaded dice on my players. Nice. I love it, all right,

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okay, cool, So before I'm
crucified, hear me out. Yah,

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yeah, all right, I did
read this one. I'm actually kind of

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like this because the dice just arrived
and I'm really excited. I'm already lost

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to minds of fandelvery. My players
will be entering a room with three red

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brands gambling in their hideout. The
players are disguised, so I'm going to

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invite them to the game. The
plan is to have them play a variation

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of twenty one where they roll two
D six try to get as close the

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twelve as possible, one of the
Red Brands will be playing with the cheat

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dice and clean them out. I'll
have my players roll for investigation. If

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they don't catch on, a fight
will almost definitely break out, so they'll

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make their money back. And then
some I tested the dice and it's very

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obvious by the way they roll that
these are loaded dice. My players are

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very laid back, and I'm feeling
pretty safe about it, and I'm curious

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your thoughts. Doesn't seem unfair to
make one of the NPCs a blatant cheater.

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I think having the cheating character like
manifest itself into your actual gameplay and

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you're rolling very loaded dice in front
of them. This only works if you

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play I r L by the way
I'm going to assume work with dice rolls.

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Yeah, well, and I think
that's probably part of it too,

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is right that you're doing that.
But I love this idea. This is

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great. Is to kind of bring
it into our world a little bit.

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And now here's the thing. You
think that because you know they're loaded and

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you're watching them, you're like,
oh, anybody would catch this, that

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that these are dearly loaded dice?
I wouldn't necessarily assume that. So if

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the players miss it, you have
to say, hey, look at whoever

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basically has the highest passive perception and
say, make a quick perception check because

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something funny is going on here.
Yeah. Yeah, if they don't catch

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it immediately, if they don't catch
what she does, say you want the

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perception checks. But like I just
kind of like be able to pick up

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twelve a game for me boys,
especially because like I'm looking uploaded dice.

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Everything's coming up twelves for me today. Weird. I'm looking uploaded dice right

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now, and like you know,
your your normal you know, set of

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seven dice for role playing game is
going to have numerals right on the d

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sixes, and every other gaming dice
out there from YACHTYA to Monopoly is going

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to have what's called pips on the
dice. And if you just you know,

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pull out a special set of two
dice to have pips and not numerals,

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that might be that might be red
flag number one. So this this

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story does a thing that that is
a that is a problem that I see

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a lot of dms getting into the
can kind of spin over into horror story

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stuff. Or that that that commits
something of a of a category error.

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There's a category error at work here, I feel like, and that is

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like conflating what's going on in real
life and things that you want the players

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to see and what's going on in
the game and what you want the characters

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to see. And and there's another
thing that this guy does that I that

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drives me up a wall, which
is he says, well, obviously,

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here's how the encounter is gonna go
start to finish to you know, all

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00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:37.720
the way through to the end.
And that's not like no plans or lives,

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you know, contact with the players, right, And he may be

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like, you know, lavishly hinting
that he's throwing these these weighted dice and

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stuff like this, and the players
may not catch on that they're weighted,

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or they may see it, but
like assume that it's like like that they're

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just supposed to play along, you
know, or and this is the worst

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case scenario, somebody might see that
and like really, no kidding, think

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that he thinks they're so stupid they're
not going to notice it, Which is

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a risk that you run when you
do stuff like this where you're trying to

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kind of look like you're hoodwinking the
players and not having stuff in the game

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that the characters and may notice and
things like that and everything. I like,

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like like years and years ago,
you know, I kind of through

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through a couple of kind of you
know, things that backfired in ways that

259
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I was not expecting that I thought
it was real clever because I was gonna,

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you know, like like like tweak
the players. Somehow I've stopped doing

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that and I don't do that,
and I'm like, like I get I

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get why people think this is gonna
be fun, but it just like in

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my experience just doesn't never works out
that way. It raised a lot of

264
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good points and does you have to
have the right relationship already with the players.

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Yeah, I'm just going to read
one of the comments here. This

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is from redditor a maximum Fox eighty
three that brings up a lot of the

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same points you just borrow Gym's up. I think it's a great idea in

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theory. I think there are some
pitfalls worth being aware of in practice.

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Doesn't mean it's not a great idea, just means you need to tast some

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extra things into account. Number one, does this game have any precedent for

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this sort of meta pseudo fourth wall
breaking mechanic because if so, one possible

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outcome I can see happening is your
player is just being extremely confused by the

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obviously loaded dice and are wondering if
calling out the DM is something they're supposed

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to do, or wondering if you
might be having a weird power tripping moment,

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and things will get awkward if they
start asking questions about it. Yeah,

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I can see it's working super well
if there's a high level of player

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slash DM trust and you seem to
be mitigating that possible pitfall with the investigation

278
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checks. So I mean it kind
of just kind of goes down that for

279
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a while, but it seems to
be along the lines of where you're where

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you're going with this gym. Yeah, but has the very high potential to

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just be just like a clever way
of showing something happening happening in game just

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to make sure that the players aren't
make sure you don't lose players trust over

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it. It's funny because it reminded
me of my bad acting and how that

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it confused players in my game,
and they're like, well, the way

285
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like you your face was making this
face, and I was like, oh,

286
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:30.240
I was just I was just doing
a voice and that's why my face

287
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.160
was making that. Sure, I
didn't know that we were that you were

288
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.640
taking like everything like you know,
I wasn't in costume, I wasn't on

289
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:45.960
a stage, but we were right
though that you weren't. Though they weren't.

290
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They kind of misconstrued something. And
that goes to your other point,

291
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Jim, where it's like the you
know, where you think it's gonna go,

292
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Yeah, it never does. It
never does you think that they're going

293
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to see right through it or they're
going to see what you think they're going

294
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to see. They're not. They're
going to have their own interpretation of that.

295
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So when now when I do voices
or role play at all of my

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players, I'm very careful to be
like, Okay, I have hundred be

297
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in character. I can't kind of
you know, call this in at all.

298
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.279
I can't roll my eyes, you
know, even a little bit if

299
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.559
that's not what this character would have
done in this moment when we do that,

300
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.200
and so I do kind of agree, like I think it's clever,

301
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not clever, I think it's I
think it could be fun oh, clever.

302
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I think it could be fun if
you have the right relationship and everything

303
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with those players. And obviously it
has to be in person game, but

304
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there's definitely you would have to weigh
out risk versus report on this one.

305
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:51.839
Yeah, I can't because how much
you are loaded done clever. I can't

306
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:55.920
think of this as clever. It's
gimmicky. Gimmicky for sure. Yet Well

307
00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:00.000
that's fine. Yeah, it just
feels like this kind of thing, like

308
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:07.079
like it just feels like someone who's
like this is a DM who's approaching this

309
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:15.160
like because he thinks this will be
fun for him and and and like hopes

310
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.920
that the players will come along.
But clearly like he finds this idea hilarious,

311
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:25.240
right, but hasn't thought you know, in like there's no indication here

312
00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:30.359
that like the table has said this
is something that they're interested in or you

313
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:34.000
know, like I would love that
more information about like do they do stuff

314
00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:37.480
like this all the time? You
know, Like do they have a thing

315
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:45.599
where like when they show up at
the bar and they do a drinking contest,

316
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.279
you know, does the DM and
one of the players each you know

317
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.359
take a mug of you know,
a mugga root beer and whoever can drink

318
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.480
it the fastest, they they win
that thing. Sure you know where they're

319
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:57.079
like you say, kind of breaking
the fourth wall like this, I would

320
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:03.400
say any any sort of like fourth
all shenanigans. If you're doing anything even

321
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from like we mentioned when we were
calling my voice, acting on the last

322
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:10.119
mail bag and putting on costumes and
or having like some some sort of like

323
00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:14.359
like a coin or a pen that
if you're already doing that kind of stuff,

324
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.759
I think this is a wide open
fair game. So so the core

325
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:19.920
of the question is is this okay? And I think that generally it's like

326
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.920
yeah, but yeah, And I
mean one of the other things that you

327
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:26.640
one of the other ways that you
do this is you can kind of you

328
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.000
know, you know, put the
sheets aside and everything, and you say,

329
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.640
okay, now we're going to play
the dice game, and as you

330
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.079
know, you shuck a shuck a
shuckut and roll the dice is the DM

331
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:42.920
and be really like overt about you
know, when the player reaches for the

332
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.200
dice, say no, no,
no, not those dice. You know,

333
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.680
you sweep you sweep those up and
you hand them a different set of

334
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:55.119
dice. Kind of thing you roll
these dice, then that can kind of,

335
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.400
you know, like like lampshade it, because like, no matter how

336
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.119
overt you think you're being, there's
just gonna be times when they cannot read

337
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:07.640
your mind and they're not going to
take it in the direction they have to.

338
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.799
They have to pick it up three
different times. Yeah, right,

339
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:15.680
Like that's like the rule of three. Like literally they have to like figure

340
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.000
it out three different times for them
to actually figure it out and go,

341
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:22.279
oh, it's like a oh,
it's like a thing. I'm pretty sure

342
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.480
you read that about your toddler.
But that also does go for players too.

343
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.039
And then they break the fourth wall
by punching you in the face.

344
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:37.359
Yes, that's what my toddler does. Kids scratched me, he drew blood

345
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.680
on me. It's like I have
a cat claw claw bite. Yeah,

346
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:48.440
yeah, yeah, bared claw.
All right, let's do one more of

347
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:55.920
these. I've got one from user
Nano the Awesome. This is called and

348
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:57.519
I feel like the title gives just
kind of gives us all we need to

349
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.319
know. I'll read the whole thing
anyway, and I'll do is read the

350
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:06.000
title and kind of rolled my eyes
and just smiled because I like knowing that

351
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:08.480
other people go through this with their
players too. Thank you for giving us

352
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:15.079
content. The title is how do
I convince my players that the beholder statue

353
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:21.960
that shoots them when they talk to
it cannot be weaponized? That's great,

354
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:25.279
Yeah, classic, I think if
they could either read this, but I'm

355
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.119
going to anyway. So I have
a new group of players, some of

356
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.039
which are brand new to the game. Combine that with the campaign that is

357
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:33.480
somewhat self directed, and it led
me to needing a bunch of side quests.

358
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.400
So I pull out my Ractose Carnival. It's a carnival run by devils

359
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:41.720
with games designed to whittle you down
so they can eventually kill you. One

360
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.000
of the tests involved a beholder statue. They had what is true beauty written

361
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.079
on it with a missing eye.
If you put your hand in the eye,

362
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.400
it will give you a key.
If you started talking to it,

363
00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:55.079
one of the stalks shoots a beam
and deals with one D four psychic damage.

364
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:56.880
Now, I mean, it's very
clear that it only shoots the person

365
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.640
who talked to it, and the
damage is trivial. But they took it

366
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.640
and keep trying to throw it at
enemies, and it keeps shooting them.

367
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:08.599
I re emphasize every time it only
shoots you, but they keep doing it.

368
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.599
It gets a laugh from the table. But last combat, multiple characters

369
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:17.319
spent turns either retrieving or talking to
the statue in combat. Even after that,

370
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:19.559
they were all talking about how to
weaponize this thing, like the soul

371
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:25.839
knife rogue was talking about how how
good then the psychic damage was when he

372
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.599
just sneak attack for sixteen psychic damage
at level four. Should I just let

373
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.880
them keep shooting themselves or do we
need to have a sit down with them

374
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:36.839
and be very clear it was a
one time gag that cannot be weaponized.

375
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:44.400
I think you need to There has
to be a reason, Like it's there's

376
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.880
a font of power under the statue
that can't be moved. There's it's in

377
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.440
an area, there's an area of
effect spell that is part of it,

378
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.880
like that they can they can't figure
out. Or it can just be a

379
00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:00.319
cursed item. This yeahthing like that, because there's if there's AOI you're a

380
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.000
font of something like they can they
can disarm itright, like a cursed item

381
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.519
is a cursed item, and like
I don't I don't think it's a mechanical

382
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:10.720
thing. I think they're just trying
to be Okay, well if no,

383
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:12.279
but if if it's cursed item,
they want it. They want it to

384
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:15.240
be a curse item so they can
take it and bring it with them.

385
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.319
Yeah, they can. That's what's
happening. So the question is do you

386
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:22.960
stop them or do you just let
them keep shooting themselves. I mean,

387
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.599
this is one of those things where
like, I guess they're having fun with

388
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:32.359
this. It sounds like sounds what's
happened to Blast, But this is like,

389
00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:38.240
I mean, this is the DM
putting like like a dumb joke thing

390
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:45.799
in and the players are like calling
his bluff and you know, one outing

391
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:49.319
trying to one up him on it, and this like like this just feels

392
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.519
to me like a campaign where this
is not the first time this has happened,

393
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.160
and it will not be the last
time that something like this has happened,

394
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.720
you know, because like he puts
a he puts like a goofy joke

395
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.960
thing in there, and rather than
them going oh haha, goofy joke thing

396
00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:08.960
and then getting on with the game, they have made it the focus of

397
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.720
the game. That's why I don't
when I when I run superhero games.

398
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:18.000
I don't let anybody play Deadpool,
like exactly this kind of thing. This

399
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:26.039
is real easy. And it's like
like if you if you feel like you

400
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:27.720
can't, just say, guys,
cut it out. It doesn't work.

401
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:36.279
You just have it run out of
juice. Whatever magical woo woo powers those

402
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:41.519
psychic blasts, you know. It
just you know, like they look at

403
00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:45.000
it. Oh, this time it
only does one D two you know,

404
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.720
the next time it only does a
single point. And then they look at

405
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:52.960
it and just it goes and then
nothing happens. Just have it run out

406
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:57.160
of juice. They'll get bored with
it, and and and they'll set it

407
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:04.279
aside and they'll look for whatever the
next dumb running joke that is more interesting

408
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:10.359
them to them than this campaign.
That that's your problem right there, is

409
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:14.319
that the running joke is more interesting
to the table than the actual content of

410
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:17.839
the campaign. I mean that that's
the underlying problem here. I promise that

411
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:22.400
was the beholder statue. The problem
is that they find that beholder statue more

412
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.000
interesting than whatever else it is that's
going on. Sure, that's that's a

413
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.000
totally fair analysis of it. Yeah, I'm very much of the you know

414
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.759
and this this probably has a lot
to do with the the shorter games that

415
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:34.680
I run, But like, if
they're having fun, they're having fun,

416
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.759
and what are we what are we
here to do if not to have fun?

417
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.279
Yeah, but everybody's got to have
fun. And if if, if

418
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:48.599
that just becomes tedious session after session
of you sitting while they're while they're refusing

419
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.279
to engage with the story that you've
put in front of them, that is

420
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:55.559
totally fair. I mean it becomes
its own that's its own problem my way.

421
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:57.039
But you know, having it go
onf for like, having having them

422
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.279
even continue to try it over and
over again for a one entire combat sounds

423
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:04.680
hysterical and like a second time where
it doesn't work, dates start to realize,

424
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:08.079
okay, this is like after a
whole second combat, it's like,

425
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:12.440
guys, I don't think we can
do this even funnier. And then like

426
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:15.480
several sessions go by, they go, wait, I've got just the thing,

427
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.880
and they try it one more time? Is that themselves? For two

428
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.799
damage peak comedy and then throw it
out. I also, this is also

429
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:25.400
one of the other things where because
we don't have the whole story, we

430
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:30.119
haven't been at that table is like, is it no kidding the whole table

431
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:36.119
that finds this hilarious or is it
like a couple of cutups three that are

432
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:40.839
life five or something exactly. You
know that like have decided that this is

433
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:45.359
the funniest thing ever, and that
by doing this all the time, they

434
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.240
don't have to listen to somebody else, you know, get into like,

435
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:53.519
you know, interpersonal conversations with characters
because they're not interested in that. The

436
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.839
story does say it gets a laugh
from the table. Multiple characters spend their

437
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:02.400
turns retrieving or tall to it.
So not all of them, It doesn't

438
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:03.839
say all of them don't, right, but I'm saying like so, so

439
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.359
he says at the table and the
multiple characters, it could be five.

440
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:15.480
It's still a social social situation situation
too, and so you know that's part

441
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.759
of it. Is like if if
there's five of us, four of us

442
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.039
are laughing. I'm laughing too,
you know. Now if there was two

443
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.839
people kind of bringing down the whole
no, like ruining their action economy because

444
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.480
they think this is funny and the
rest of the tables is getting pissed about

445
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:30.720
it, I think I feel like
that'd be a different post at that point,

446
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.319
there'd be a different tone. Well, unless I feels the only one

447
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:37.640
being really annoyed by this is DM. Yeah except that, except that,

448
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:45.519
like I mean, the DM is
focused on that and not necessarily whether the

449
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.759
other people are into it or not. He's focused on the people that are

450
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.559
trying to you know, like like
this is the thing where you just say

451
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:59.240
no once and then you put it
to bed. It doesn't have to like

452
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:05.279
like this is only been an ongoing
thing because he finds it funny too sure

453
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:10.519
or did yes exactly? There you
go, Yeah, that's it. The

454
00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:15.000
joke has gotten old even for him
now. So I like the whole letting

455
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:21.799
it run out of juice thing used
up its mojo. Hopefully, the answer

456
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:24.400
supposedly should be like let them try
until they get bored. It's as they're

457
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:28.200
not getting bored, so make them. Make them get bored of it,

458
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.400
or give them a new give them
a new shiny toy that'll that'll annoy you

459
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:35.160
next. I I kind of like
where the table turn in. If they

460
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:37.079
move it, it turns into a
real beholder. Yeah, they say,

461
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:39.359
give them a concert. They talked
to it too much, and now it's

462
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:43.079
a real beholder who has a lot
of questions for the going to iye tyrant

463
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:45.960
or something that's the one that they
like come into existence from the dream the

464
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:51.279
other beholders. Yeah, but we'll
find out soon. Yeah, I'll just

465
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.640
I'm just gonna follow this to this
this user on reddit and wait for the

466
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:59.400
next question. Yeah, so that
is that's my favorite post from dm Academy

467
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:01.279
for this month. I'd love to
answer your question, so I will open

468
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:05.079
our mail bag back up so you
can send us your questions to you Hello

469
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:08.440
Adventurers podcast at gmail dot com or
ask us yourself at Hello Adventurers dot com

470
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:12.680
slash voice. How would you?
How would you deal with these things?

471
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.839
And what's your what's your most annoying
first item that your players try to try?

472
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:22.119
The Shenanigan ice weaponize? Yeah?
Does it be weaponized? Just yeah,

473
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.960
I guess true. Yes, you
can absolutely have out of combat Shenanigans.

474
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.640
Yeah. What's the dumb piece of
crap you put into your game that

475
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.559
they decided was more interesting than the
actual campaign? It was a It was

476
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:38.559
a door person for me. Oh
sorry, I wasn't supposed to love Listen

477
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.279
you make fun of door like,
well, I don't want to spoil that.

478
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:44.559
While talk about it loft, healthy
air. But door Door is one

479
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.119
of my favorite characters. I oh
no, no, no, not no,

480
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:50.559
not door a door person. I'm
talking about the campaign that you're in

481
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:55.880
with me. Oh yeah, yeah. We went like someone who guards the

482
00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.000
door to a building pretty much.
Yeah, okay, the guy who answers

483
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:01.880
the door. I was like,
fantastic. Yeah, we went away off

484
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:07.359
the rounds. He was like,
but one of the funniest sessions you ever

485
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.639
head, so that we're going to
talk about for a while. So like,

486
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.239
if everyone agrees to it, that's
fine. If everyone's having fun,

487
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:20.440
then I no getting everyone decides that's
what the game is about first, right.

488
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.519
I only thought that impressed the whole
session that night, and I hadn't,

489
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:27.119
so I didn't find out until the
next time we played that I had

490
00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.840
not. Actually, you know,
well, surprise we're doing We're doing something

491
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:34.159
else now. But I'm gonna wrap
this one up for the day. Guys,

492
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.719
thanks for taking care of these with
me. I love doing any kind

493
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:39.800
of advice episode. I love doing
them, so please send us your questions

494
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.119
again. It's Allow Adventures podcast at
Jamail dot Tom. Hello Adventures dot Tom.

495
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:45.559
Slash Voice to Leave is a voicemail. That's gonna wrap it up,

496
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.760
Jim, Joe, thanks for hanging
out. Yeah you bet, Thanks for

497
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:52.199
your question. Yeah, I think
we're done podcasting for the day. We're

498
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.639
gonna go home, so I'm gonna
write home. Guys, thank you for

499
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:58.719
listening to Hello Adventurers. We are
your host Jason. He's a Jim Crocker

500
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.920
and Joe McCall producer, editor,
an engineer Jason Bertiso music by an experior

501
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.000
artwork by Kristin Broderick. You can
read out to us with any feedback or

502
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.360
suggestions by emailing Hello Adventurers podcast at
gmail dot com. Hello Adventures is a

503
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:14.559
JPP audio production. Good Goodbye Adventurers.