RPG Horror Story: Hanging Up On Gustav

0:20 That Hello Adventurers, the podcast for role players and game masters to help level up your game. We already dungeon masters Jason Portiso, Joe McCall, and Jim Crocker. Today we'll take a little let's take a little break and just tell some stories. Today we got a horror stories send to us by a listener. So before we get to this story, let's let's clear the air a little bit because I want to hear your guys' stories. I want you guys to send us stories. You could send us your story a Hello Adventures podcast at gmail dot com. So before you go ahead and tell us your your about the time that the guy was a creep and made older girls leave the stories that we want you guys to send. What what makes a good story for this kind of show? And my general rule is a really it's kind of a vibe thing. It does the story past the vibe check.

1:03 And so the things that are going to pass the vibe check, I'm looking more for stories about a game that went wrong and less about a player that went wrong. And today's story is about a problem player, and we're gonna we're gonna cover this one anyway to address a few things, but I want to hear more about your you know, the guy the guys who tried through homebrew a whole game based on D and D and ends up just changing the whole thing, or the guy who thought dms could bank their own inspiration and use them inspiration. Yeah, exactly. So like so far, those those two stories that we've covered really are just like like nailing exactly what we're looking for. Today's episode is about a problem player. It is it is still going to pass the vibe check for today, but this is kind of the last time I want to do a story similar to this one, because it really all it boils down to don't be gross, and that means not only hygienically, don't be gross, but also like don't be a gross type of person, which this guy isn't crossing those kind of lines, but like it's just all too common. And this where we're going to kind of like point to the camera in the in those like eighties very special episodes, We're going to like just stare down the barrel of the camera here and we're going to break the fourth wall. Yea, what is the fourth wall? In the podcast? For everywhere there's ever nothing but walls. We're lousy with walls over here. What am I going to do with all these walls? So this kind of gets me into before we can get too the story. Let let's just let's just have a little chat here, guys. So I was running a game this past there's a couple of days ago at the time of this recording, which doesn't really matter, but I want you to know that this was recent and a lot of the games that I run are public and made

2:36 for brand new players, and some people have different ideas of what this game actually is. So I always have a little chat with them and be like, hey, these are the things that we're going to expect today, and these are the things that I find completely unacceptable on my table. And some of them were obvious, like if anybody tries to bring any like outside real world racism into the game, that's an does an instant kick from the table and no refunds. And some players try to bring in things, like, you know, really touchy subjects like like sexual assault and things along those lines that I don't even want to like say out loud, which some people have this idea in their head that that belongs in this hobby and I think that's you should not allow that, even in the slightest bit at all. We were going to do a whole episode on what it's called safety tools, and so we're not going to get into what those are today other than that they are things in place that you all have a discussion about and make sure that everybody is having a good time and nobody is made uncomfortable. The reason I brought that up for that particular game was it was a horror based game, and I want to make sure that people were okay with things like hanging and dismemberment, and like, you know, because I don't know what experiences people have had, and you know, unfortunately, things like hanging is something that people may have dealt with, you don't you don't know what anybody else exact experience. And bringing things like sexual assault to a table in what is a fantasy game, it's like, first of all, that shouldn't be your fantasy.

3:55 Second of all, it's just there's just no place for it here. So when I was telling the table that and like, hey, listen, these are my hard stops. We don't do racism, we don't do sexual assault, and they looked at me, they're like, is that really a thing that you have to like tell people not to bring to the table. And I'm like, oh, my sweet summer child. People are awful. Yeah, And when you bring the wrong kind of person into a game where you can literally do anything, some people are going to take that into a very dark place that really has no place in this kind of game. And so there's other new players that think that this is normal and will and ours straight away from this because of that, And it may you know, giving people the benefit of the data may also be coming from like like some understanding of like war and trying to be realistic. Like it's just that there's no place for it. You know, if you're coming into D and D from say Game of Thrones, where sexual violence is endemic to that show and often used as like motivation for characters and stuff like that, it's not outrageous that you might think that the story might have room for that. Yeah, exactly what I say. And it's just good to put that up front there, to say this is not that kind of story. It doesn't illegitimize that if that's the kind of story that you're interested in, And if you get a table where all of you decide you want to go into those issues. There's no D and D Police that are going to descend on your house to say

5:26 you can't do that. But certainly, like you said, Jason, in public where not only are you concerned with the people at the table, but anybody that may be walking by the table, you've got to calibrate also appropriate. And also I'm being allowed to use the space of that place for the day, and now, whether I meant to be or not, I am now representative of that space that I'm using, whether it's a game store or brewery or wherever else I'm running games. So at my particular table and even on my private tables, I just don't want to deal with that while we're at it. Just something you mentioned there should be be a D and D piece like the town guard. Well yeah, I'm just saying maybe there should be a D and D police. Yeah, those are the those are the pinker Tints. And that was a story from last year. So all that to say is that that, yeah, these awful, awful things do absolutely exist in this game, and some of these players were like surprised that, like, yeah, this is this, this is a thing that we kind of have to like make sure that our hobby is kept in a good light.

6:26 Yeah, and so the reason why I don't like hearing those stories is a they kind of paint us in a bad light and be all I can really say about them is the same thing over and over again. Don't do that. Don't be a creep. Yeah, And like you know, if you if you think you're gonna be going out in public and sharing time with someone, maybe make yourself presentable in some way. I played, I played magic for a long time. I think too. I think our jobs are to bring you content that's new and interesting or old in it, you know, interesting, and that is neither of those stories. Yeah, it's not interesting, it's it's it's terrible, doesn't belong and it makes us goods. There's nothing new because our other job on episodes like this one is to chime in on them and maybe offer some advice. And I just offered all the advice that I could possibly give on that type of story, which is just don't be a creep and you know, pretend that you know how to interact with people. That's all I ask for. So with that out of the way, I bet that's just something I wanted to address. This story is not quite as bad as those could be. I will say this is probably the last time we're going to do a problem player story rather than a problem game story. But I like that this listener. Actually, this came in from a listener of our previous show, Comudgeons and Dragons, and I promised I was going to get to it, and then the show kind of went on permanent hiatus, and now it is this show and I still want to get to it. But yeah, please send us your game stories again.

7:47 That's hello, Adventurers Podcast at gmail dot com. Send us your stories. And the other thing is, so that's content stuff. Now it's all about story stuff. I get people really quick extending dms like, hey, I had a game where like this happened, and this happened, and that's the whole thing. So a story should have a beginning, a middle, and an end, just like your games do. And you know, give me, give you a little piazz, give me something, give me something fun to read here. And it is something that this this listener did very well. So I'd like to reward that. Is there any trigger warnings for this, because I don't know what you're mild or. I wouldn't say there's any anything particularly awful in the story. This is just since we're talking about safety tools, make sure we go and that's the that's totally fair to ask. No, no, this is this isn't anything like that, And if and if it was, we wouldn't have Google story, google those stories. I do have a hardline on this is just just this is just rude, is what it is. Oh, yeah, I know about that. Yeah, that we can deal with rude. I'll take Hello Adventurers, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy the show, the absolute best thing you can do to support us is to subscribe so you'll be notified when new episodes are released. You can also leave us a review five stars. Of course, that will help us get seen by more D and D players, and more than anything else, just tell your friends about us. If you like what we're doing here, then there's a good chance that your DM or your players will enjoy it too. And you don't need to loop gold to do any of that. We appreciate your listening. Now back to the show, but that all out of the way. I don't want to spend the whole story telling you what not to do. Let's let's have a story that teaches

9:18 us what kind of what not to do. Listener that goes by the name gelatinous GM and I did ask nicely, and we can call them Jelly Jelly Rights. I moved to a new state roughly six months ago from across the country. Now they sent the story like a year ago, so they're pretty well they gotta be on box by now. Looking for a D and D group, I reached out to multiple local Facebook groups and one of the first people in the message me was this player. We'll call them Gustave. No offense to Actually, Gustav's is just a fun name to say. I first started talking to Gustav through discord while we played computer games. They mentioned they had a D and D group they were playing in, and I was hoping to work my way into that game. I just love the idea of like infiltrating like this, like this like secret society you still play in the D and D game? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you need that, you need another Freemason? Yeah, do you want to ask on exactly? Unfortunately, this is way more of a cult than the Freemasons are. Unfortunately, every time I asked about their group and if I could join their games kept canceling if only I knew then what I know now. After a while, I met a stellar group of players and began dming Curse of Strad for them.

10:31 It was a small group and while only two of the three actually participated, they were rock star players and I wanted them to have a bigger group of more players to help out, so I asked them if I could bring someone in for a trial run er Gustav. I thought I had adequately sussed them out while playing video games. I was dead wrong. We first started playing at a local game shop and it all went fairly decent, aside from them not knowing their own character that they had created, but no big deal. Me and my players would remind them from time to time, and as we said in a previous episode, this is not exclusive to this table. This is just the thing. But as we got into seasonal one shots or potential future characters, I was getting text NonStop from Gustav on how to build their character for them. Multiple attempts were made by me to convince them to read the material and figure it out, as I had offered my advice and they didn't like it. Eventually, I got my living situation sorted and built a D and D room. I asked the group if we could start playing there, as it would be most convenient for everyone as it was closer.

11:31 They all agreed and we were all excited to play there. Where were they playing? I thought they were playing online? Possibly? Oh no, they he met them playing playing online and with the existing group, I kind of assumed there was at the game store. Okay, sorry, I just I guess that may not have been explicit, but I can't imagine going from one we first started playing at a local game job. Now I say, okay, yeah, that is there. Okay, sorry, got it. This section is titled The Nightman Cometh Sex and said titles it's a cool thing. If you do that, title your sections inspiration for you, Jilly. Game day arrived, I made food for everyone and we all sat down the play.

12:11 The night went on pretty normally until Gustav mentions they didn't drive here, but were dropped off and their ride was tired of waiting in the car outside. Let's let's let's pack Let's unpack this for a second here, this this has mom vibes, but I'm not really sure, but just it's just the the making your ride sit outside while you play D and D. This isn't it. This isn't exactly a game of Uno. All right, this is going to go off for hours mine, But these are adults rights to be. Even if I wasn't an adult, there was no way my mom's waiting in a car outside. My wife lives here. She really wants to stay here while we play games. She has her own dice. I just doesn't want to play. I'm gonna bring her on my day. We're gonna get it. She legit loves listening to this story. Actually have a company over, so that's always cool. Anyway, this isn't about her. This is about This is about waiting outside. So their ride and they're chi old knock on my door? What we have an unexpected guests and I'm expected child.

13:03 Now I let them inside kind of out of not knowing what to do in the situation. So the pronouns are the pronouns are throwing me a little there, their ride and the rides child, or the ride and the player's child that was out in the car with the ride. Because of syntax and English language, I can't tell if okay, I mean, they're both bad, but one's worst. Thinking it's the ride and the rides child, this might this might be the wife and his king, and it's I think there's I think there's I think his wife and kid. Yeah, because like I'm having a very hard time thinking of anybody else waiting outside in the car with the kid, waiting for someone else to play D and D and and again.

13:45 English and syntax, you know whatever. Not necessarily spouse, but yeah, it does sound like, yeah, partner they live with or something like that. I use the already. I've used the term wife very loosely. I have a beance, not a wife. But that's that's neither here nor there. I let them in kind of out of not knowing what to do in the situation. I led them into the game room and they sat on the floor for an hour while we played, so I had no other seating. I now was upset in pressure to wrap up so they could all go home. Not to mention, the child was running up and down the stairs and into other rooms where I couldn't see them, And the top of it off, my wife was trying to put our kids down for the night while this random kid kept showing up. None of us have even would even chime in with that this is we see how uncomfortable this isew uncomfortable we are right now and Joe, so this is one bad day, right, this will get better, right right? So before the next time we played, I made sure to mention to the group that if anyone was not driving themselves to the game, that I need to know and I would let them know if it was okay to have them come over. Luckily, this wasn't an issue again, so this was a one off. This section is called ugh the sequel.

14:58 The next week comes around that we all start gaming. Ag I make food business as usual until Gustav takes a call mid game, does not leave the room and puts it on speaker. Jesus, well, what was the call? Who was the dog? Who was doctor or their doctor? You know you think you think you mentioned We try to play around this to be considerate towards the player, just they deserve consideration. At this point, eventually I realized that Gustav is not going to hang up their phone because there's significant other it wants to go shopping with them while on the phone. I hate peoples, They're out of peace. Should I get these peas instead. Hell is other people. That's true, It doesn't it doesn't even matter what the conversation is. That's like, this is this is a thing where people are confusing politeness for allowing chaos. Like you can politely tell someone please take your call in the other rooms or hang up, and you'd be polite about that, Like, you know, not being polite about that is hang up the damn phone. What are you doing? That's being impolite. But you can absolutely enforce the boundaries and rules of your home while being polite. And if people get upset about that, that's on them because you know you were polite, you were courteous, and they're the one that is like they're the one that is being impolite there, Yeah, Jelly, so far Jelly is a

16:33 doormat, you know kind of That's what I'm getting. Yeah, but you can you can be pleasant and stick up for yourself. Yeah, That's what I'm saying, is is like how how what? And maybe we'll find out, But what's the line before you stop being quote unquote polite? Like and and I think that it is especially what's a generational thing too? Write? I think I believe when is it time to stop being polite and start being But like you know, I was brought up to like like sorry, Joe, Jim, that was the most gen next thing you could have possibly ever really said. Absolutely reference the kids there MTV. Maybe it's a generational and it really it really might be right because I think there's like a whole thing with millennials, specifically millennials and and xennials, like elder millennials and like like being respectful and polite, like we that was hammered home for us so much.

17:27 I think that that a lot of people of my generation and I don't know this person from Adam, but we've not met, we've not met, but I'm gonna guess that we may be of of a certain age and that yeah, like we almost let people go too far because we think we're being polite. You're not being polite, you're being a doormat. You're letting people walk alome for you. I see it be pleasant. You can be pleasant and still stick up for yourself. And commenting on on millennials is a completely different theme than this show has. But yeah, as an elder millennial myself, it's less about coming off as polite and more about not coming off as a burden that was something that was kind of hammered into us, and that maybe that's really what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I mean, and there's also, you know, there's also very real line and a complicated space between inclusivity, not wanting to be a gatekeeper, not wanting to exclude people, but also keeping the people that are already part of the group safe.

18:27 And you know, like like your courtesy extends not just to the new guy, right, it also extends to the existing table that's already there. But no, that's cool. So but Jason, please continue so that we can hear the happy ending indicating that this was the last session that this player attended. But absolutely hold on. I wish and to what you said, Jim keeping the party safe and the rest of the group safe, and because that means you have to throw this player up, because he's clearly a serial killer. He's having conversations just on speakerphone as if nobody else exists about shopping for what I assume was peace. I made up the peace part. He's a sociopath at least, right, I'm gonna I'm gonna draw the line at you maligning peas, my favorite vegetable. By associating them with this behavior prefer I think it was like it was almost certainly something objectively gross, like lima beans, Like they were talking about buying lima beans. So in my head, that's that's what it is, frozen collie flower. I politely asked Gustav to hang up. Fortunately they do, and to end the night, they break out a pack of ritz crackers and spray cheese and get it all over my chairs and floors. Maybe they were shopping for spray cheese. I don't know, because he's about to run out like an they knew not to invite this guy back to all as well. It does continue now before the next game, I messaged the party yet again to remind them that if they need to

19:59 take a phone call, please step out of the room. If it's not going to be quick, does it not? Look I'm not saying this to Ednie, one particular person, anyone at all. Take a phone call this passive aggressive bullshit. This is that's a that's like, like we want to talk about generational difficulties and people being directed. They can also just wait a minute. Isn't like all of the Midwest is passive aggressive, aren't they. I'm even going to point out the tag at the end of that sentence. If it's not going to be quick, that is a very millennial, just like it was not it was not too much trouble. Could you please get that knife out of my neck? That? If he couldn't please, I don't want to. I don't want to be a bother. And then then you tip them. Then you yeah. Day three, the final straw there's still straws lest guys. This time one of my players wants to try their hand at DM. Everyone in the group is super supportive and excited to play this campaign. Everyone all came over, we got set up and started to play. Throughout the game, we kept noticing a very sour, disgusting smell, and no one could catch where it was coming from. No one said anything so as had not hurt anyone's feelings, but multiple party members messaged me after the game about a smell that and I shared some of my concerns and told them that it would get resolved. So I bet you nowhere or from whom the gaseous odors leaked from. I went back to the D and D room a day after and a replaced some old cheese was left to know ymcg

21:30 in bag it was coming from the chair Gustav sat in. It needed to be cleaned with carbon cleaner to get rid of the smell. Before I could call Gustav and explain all these things to him, letting him know they aren't welcome back, they had responded to our group chat that we had shared all of our characters with fun names and cool backgrounds, and they shared theirs not a bad character build, and I could tell that they were trying to branch out creatively until I scrolled up and saw the character's name. Gustav had made a play on words with the word incognito and use a racist term for a marginalized group. They told us that their character also had bling in a gold tooth. Come on, we called them out immediately and kicked them out, so at least he has a hard line there shares the hard line that I mentioned at the top of the episode. So so many things led up to this moment. The last one caught us all by surprise, and in the end, they taught me a lot of things to look out for and to not put up with. Just to be a peacemaker so sounded like he had the wherewithal to learn that he was kind of being the millennial I don't want to be a burden doormat and learned from it, and hopefully he has that.

22:41 This is a quick spinal installation that a lot of us need when we're trying to be and we're trying to be polite. It's in the name of being polite, you know. And we commented on it on the way to the end of the story, so like there's there's not a whole lot else to say, And this is one of the reasons why I don't love bad player stories where there is something there is something that I did want to bring up. That was a thing that I heard at the beginning that we didn't really touch on, but that I think is is actually actionable in this story that can help people beyond just you know, just don't like don't invite don't invite jerks. But at the beginning, I forget the exactly how he phrased it, but he said something to the effect of, like, we agreed provisionally to allow them into the game, and so when you do that, know what that means, communicate it to that player and then stick to it.

23:41 There's an adage in business. I owned a small business for many years. I own my store, and this is like one of the things that managers would always we'd always say to each other's managers is slow to hire, quick to fire, which is to say, if someone's not working out, it is best for everyone, including that person, to say this ain't working you know, you want to be somewhere else, We don't want you here. Let's let's end this right now, rather than you know, spend a lot of time trying to trying to work it out and figure it out and stuff like that, you know, and and do a bit of vetting before you let people in now. Like this guy felt that he had he played some video games with this person who like clearly didn't drop any you know, like racist bond mops while they were you know, chatting with each other while playing Fortnite or whatever it was that they were doing. But when you say we're going to let you into the game, provisionally, that should be something very explicit. It should like it should mean at the end of any of the first three sessions, either of us can say, yeah, it's not working out, sorry, appreciate you're giving it a shot, and and you should make sure that that is extended to the table, to the players as well, because almost certainly some number of those players, maybe even a majority of them, after that first session we're like nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. But because the DM has that social power and has that you know, kind of sets the agenda. Especially if

25:11 it's your house that you're playing at, it's going to be tough for them to speak up and make their opinions known and stuff like that, and you got to make sure that when you say provisional, you're explicit about that and what that means and then stick to it. Now, in their defense, that seems to be exactly what happened here because this was on like a three strike system, it seems to be. And like, you know, okay, the first thing with with the with the driver and the kids showing up, you know, maybe maybe the ride got messed up and maybe this was just like a circumstantial thing. Okay, you you talk about it, you let it go. And then the next one is like, okay, we have a phone call thing like okay, maybe he just has you know, different ideas on how private a phone call can should be let's just let's put a hard foot down on this one, right and so far, like no one's getting hurt over these things. And he did put the phone away when he asked, yeah, so like okay, so that we just have a couple of annoyances from here and then and then we finally hit the brick wall of the hard foot racism as okay, you're done, but like so so pretty much how you describe like it should go down. It sounds like that how one, except except it was all vibes right, like he didn't say and we said, you can be in the game provisionally, and here's what that means. Yes, And and I think the other the other thing that's important here is that if you live with someone and they are in that space while your game is going on, and there is something happening that impacts on

26:44 their life, they get a vote to So the partner who had this kid getting in their face when they're trying to put their other kids to bed, you know, they should have some say there as well. You know, everybody that's affected by that should be part of that determining whether that provisional status. You know, maintains or and you can be polite, you can say no to people politely, but but it's it's it's still no. That's the sorry. My wife would have shut that down so fast, Like if there was some kid riiling my kids up while she was trying to put them to better or something. Yeah, yeah, that she and that's completely would have been shut She's like, all right, game's over by everybody. She had to kick everybody out, and like it's her house entirely the reasonable. Yeah, I think you got to stick up for yourself. You got to call people on their stuff politely. You know, you don't have to be a jernk about it to start to start to start. Yeah, yeah, like hey man, you are you are? You are within your rights to escalate, Yeah, and to make sure that you're and you got to make sure you're bringing your players into it, because it's entirely possible that someone is can be you know, like we're not going to make this about creepy players and stuff like that, but it's entirely possible that someone could be an absolute gem at the table. But then you know, when you're walking out to your cars afterwards, they say something to one of them players. And but but

28:15 that's it, that's all they're doing. But you got to make sure everybody has a say in that, because everybody's got to live with whomever you're bringing into the game. So I think that's that's all that really needs to be said about this. I am glad that player is gone. And and Jelly, if you're still listening and we've been in touch since, then, yeah, thanks for the story. This is this sounded like a bunch of really annoying nights. And even then you may have dodged the bullet. It's a good for you. Yeah, maybe a literal one, who knows, but but yes, I think it's there's There's not a whole lot else to be said about problem players. You you make, you have a plan and things in place to remove a problem player, even if if it's a it's a friend that starts off break and then you learn something about them later that you didn't know. Just like just like Jelly, did you know you find ways to remove toxicity from your hobby. Doesn't And this is the other thing, It doesn't even have to be toxicity. If has to be, doesn't vie with the group because it's not what's that. No, I don't think that's toxic. It's just you don't fit the culture, right. That's like a thing that you hear about in business all the time is that it's just it's not a good culture fit. But it's like, it's like finding politely.

29:36 You can do that politely, you're it's it is so much like dating. The whole point of dating is that you find out if you're compatible, and if you're not, either of you can say nope at any time and walk away and you're absolutely you absolutely have that right to do that, and no one is a bad person because that happened. It's it, And it's a lot like dating from my DA game too, because I kiss all my players on the mouth. So that's called inspiration. That's how I use inspiration. Let's please wrap this up here, okay, so send us your story is probably a bad game story. Helloadventures podcast at gmail dot com. You can tell us your story yourself, although the voicemail is only ninety seconds, so either tell it really really fast or give us the synopsis. And if you'l like you were on multiple times, don't call it multiple times please, I'm not sifting through that. It's a great way to have you to not play it, but I'll just tell us the synopsis of your story and if we like it, we'll we'll reach out. But that's at Hello Adventures podcast dot com slash voice that is going to do it for today. So thank you so much for listening to Hello Adventures. We're your host Jason Portiso, Jim Crocker and Joe McCall producer, editor, Engineer Jason Portiso. Music is by Nick S Burrier or artwork is by Kristin Broderick. You can reach out to us with any pedbacker suggestions by emailing Hello Adventures Podcast at gmail dot com.

30:53 Hello Adventures is a JTP audio production Good Guy by Adventurers cost U